Can pH effect mash efficiency? I've been getting horrible efficiency for the last 5 brews or so (under 60%), and I've tried different sparging techniques (fly and batch) and well as a 90 minute mash. My temp remains fairly constant at 152F for the duration of the mash. I'm running out of ideas, so now I'm examining my water profile. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Mash efficiency and ph
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certaut
Well-Known Member
michaeltrego
Well-Known Member
It may be likely that your grain needs a better crush.
certaut
Well-Known Member
maybe? I shoot for 5.4
Clementine
Well-Known Member
Are you mashing out? I'm new to all grain but I was told to mash out raising the grain bed to 170 when batch sparging to help dissolve the sugars.
Clem
Clem
American Wheat
6.5 lb White Wheat
4.5 lb American 2-row
Mash for 90 minutes at 152F
Mash out at 170, rest for 10 minutes
Batch sparge with 170F water, rest 10 minutes between each sparge
Beersmith 2.0 estimated OG 1.063 at 75% efficiency
I took pH readings the entire time. Beginning of mash was 5.8-6.0, at 80 minutes pH was 5.4. The beginning of sparge pH was 6.1 and an OG of 1.083, end of batch sparge pH was about 6, with an OG 1.022.
My final amount was 6.1 gallons at 1.044 with a 63.8% efficiency. Best efficiency so far. Does anyone see any potential problems with my process? I'm shooting for 70% efficiency, but I always seem to be in the 50-60 range. Any help would be great, thanks!
6.5 lb White Wheat
4.5 lb American 2-row
Mash for 90 minutes at 152F
Mash out at 170, rest for 10 minutes
Batch sparge with 170F water, rest 10 minutes between each sparge
Beersmith 2.0 estimated OG 1.063 at 75% efficiency
I took pH readings the entire time. Beginning of mash was 5.8-6.0, at 80 minutes pH was 5.4. The beginning of sparge pH was 6.1 and an OG of 1.083, end of batch sparge pH was about 6, with an OG 1.022.
My final amount was 6.1 gallons at 1.044 with a 63.8% efficiency. Best efficiency so far. Does anyone see any potential problems with my process? I'm shooting for 70% efficiency, but I always seem to be in the 50-60 range. Any help would be great, thanks!
slothorentropy
Well-Known Member
I've been doing AG for about six months now and haven't heard of anything ph- or water-related that would have that deleterious an effect on your efficiency.
How many steps in your sparge process? What's your mash tun situation? Are you using a braid or a manifold?
How many steps in your sparge process? What's your mash tun situation? Are you using a braid or a manifold?
Celticway
Well-Known Member
michaeltrego said:
Yep. This is certainly suspect.
Celticway
Well-Known Member
slothorentropy said:
I challenge that statement somewhat. If your ph was far off, which in his case it was not, then PH could possibly affect efficiency. Different levels of PH will favor the enzymes to activate along with temperature to breakdown the long chains of starch into sugars. Now this is not the posters problem, but in extreme cases I think it is plausible.
You said your last 5 brews. Does that mean that beforehand you got much better efficiency? Or that you've done 5 AG batches and they've all had about 60% efficiency.
If you've done more than 5 batches, you must have changed something. If you took good notes or have a good record in BeerSmith see if you can pinpoint the change.
If you've only done 5 AG batches, what is the dead space in your Mash/Lauter Tun? You can potentially leave a LOT of sugars behind with deadspace. [EDIT] I also second looking into getting a finer crush.
Hope you can figure out your issue!
slothorentropy
Well-Known Member
Word; I only said that I'd never heard of it. Can ph problems really drag you down like twenty points if they're bad enough?
Celticway
Well-Known Member
slothorentropy said:
To be honest, I can't say for sure, but knowing what PH does to a mash, it could be possible. By the way, wasn't trying to step on your comment. Just adding my thoughts.
slothorentropy
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah for sure; no harm done.
I agree 100%. If your pH is far out of spec (5.8-6.0 is far out of spec), the enzymes will not be active and you won't get full conversion. This will definitely effect efficiency. Remember pH is a log scale, so a pH of 5.0 is 10 times more acidic than a pH of 6.0. That is a big difference.
bh10
Well-Known Member
Hit the nail on the head, Higher the pH the worse the efficiency.
skunkfingers
New Member
Make sure you have a good bed established before using your wheat. It has a tendency to get very sticky. Anytime you have a recipe with more than 50% wheat in your grain bill you might want to consider a protein break with just the wheat before the rest of the grain as well.
I'd recommend reading through http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Troubleshooting_Brewhouse_Efficiency and http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...ity_and_efficiency_in_single_infusion_mashing. Yes, it's a lot, but it really helped me and explains things rather well.
I suggest determining if you have a conversion efficiency or lautering efficiency problem first. If you used a mash water ratio of 1.25 qt/lb, you had about 87% conversion which doesn't sound too bad. I found moving from 1.25 to 1.5qt/lb helped my conversion a lot.
To answer your original question, yes, PH does effect conversion efficiency. See if you actually have a conversion problem though.
I suggest determining if you have a conversion efficiency or lautering efficiency problem first. If you used a mash water ratio of 1.25 qt/lb, you had about 87% conversion which doesn't sound too bad. I found moving from 1.25 to 1.5qt/lb helped my conversion a lot.
To answer your original question, yes, PH does effect conversion efficiency. See if you actually have a conversion problem though.
I'm sure someone will chime in with it...but at some point I got a spreadsheet (or was it a website) that had you record readings at several different points...like each run off...and once done could tell you pretty well where your effciency is dieing.
Can't for the life of me find it though.
Can't for the life of me find it though.
I think this is the spreadsheet you're referring to: http://braukaiser.com/documents/efficiency_calculator.xls
There's a lot of great info on that site
There's a lot of great info on that site
The biggest problem with mashing near a pH of 6 is the sparge will be higher (without some kind of adjustment.) I doubt it would have much effect on efficiency but will not make the best beer. The problem is poor conversion and probably form poor crush.
I know this is an older thread, but I ran across this while searching, and wanted to add an additional comment. Wheat malt is smaller than barley malt, so if they are crushed using the same mill setting, you will not get a good crush on the wheat malt. Since over half of the OP's grist was wheat, this would explain the low efficiency, even in the absence of any pH effects.
I've had the same problem on the only two beers I've brewed with a high percentage of wheat (an American Wheat and a Wheat Wine). On these beers I only hit 55-60% efficiency. With all my all- or mostly-barley grists, I hit 72-74%.
I've had the same problem on the only two beers I've brewed with a high percentage of wheat (an American Wheat and a Wheat Wine). On these beers I only hit 55-60% efficiency. With all my all- or mostly-barley grists, I hit 72-74%.
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