Maris Otter vs. Pale 2 Row

[mrphillips]

I'm planning an Irish Red, and I wanted to use Maris Otter Malt but I'm having some trouble finding it. I know I could order it online, but I'd rather support my local brew store. Anyways, I was wondering how my flavor profile would change if I used American 2 Row instead of Maris Otter. I've seen recipes that use both, but the only Red I've ever had is Killians.

Does anyone know of 2 beers I could try to get an idea of the different flavor profiles: one brewed with Maris and the other with 2 Row?

 

[kaconga]

Ask your local guy to order some. I bet he can hook you up.

 

[BigEd]

I'm planning an Irish Red, and I wanted to use Maris Otter Malt but I'm having some trouble finding it. I know I could order it online, but I'd rather support my local brew store. Anyways, I was wondering how my flavor profile would change if I used American 2 Row instead of Maris Otter. I've seen recipes that use both, but the only Red I've ever had is Killians.

Does anyone know of 2 beers I could try to get an idea of the different flavor profiles: one brewed with Maris and the other with 2 Row?

Any British pale malt will do here, it doesn't have to be an MO. Does the shop have any UK pale malt at all? Look for names like Crisp, Munton's, Baird's, and Thomas Faucett. If you have to use domestic pale malt it will benefit from a 5% or so addition of something toasty like Melanoidin, Aromatic or Biscuit malt.

BTW Killian's is to an Irish/UK ale as Coor's is to a Czech pilsner. Smithwick's would be the most commonly found Irish ale, it's pretty widely distributed.

 

[mrphillips]

Thanks BigEd.

I was also going to add a 1/2 pound of Victory to this batch. I've heard that the UK malts deliver a "nuttier" taste, so would using 6 lbs. of Muntons DME along with my victory result in something astringently-nutty?

 

[TheHairyHop]

I'm confused. You wanted to find MO but you're also using DME?

 

[GuldTuborg]

I think NB has a Maris Otter extract, if that's more your speed.

 

[mrphillips]

To answer harry hop, Yes, I wanted to use Maris Otter extract but I prefer to use DME opposed to LME, and there seems to be no such thing as Maris Otter DME. Since another poster suggested that any UK Pale Malt would work, and I know that my local shop carries Muntons Pale DME, I was considering going with the Muntons DME.

I'm a partial masher so I like my base malts to be DME, and the rest of the grain bill to be milled grains.

 

[AnOldUR]

I'm a partial masher so I like my base malts to be DME . . .

 

[zachattack]

I'm sharing your confusion. Malt extract doesn't have any diastatic power, so it can't be a base malt.

I think you need to use the liquid if you want legit British malts. As mentioned, NB is the first vendor to sell 100% MO syrup and that's almost certainly your best bet. I'll also agree with the above post that you can add in a bit of one of the more nutty/bready specialty malts like Biscuit to make up for the lack of MO. Most of those need to be mashed, so make sure you're doing an actual partial mash and not just steeping. So just make sure you have a base malt in there. You could use MO.

 

[chuckstout]

You can try Firestone Walkers beers, i beleive they use a blend of American pale (might just be 2-Row) and munich malt to mimic Maris Otter which is made by several maltsters in the UK.

I would guess something like 80/20 or 90/10 ratio of your base malt.

 

[mrphillips]

Sorry about the confusion everyone. I'm sure I'm just confusing my terms and abbreviations. Can anyone straighten me out :O ? My recipes usually call for around 6 pounds of Dry Malt Extract (what I've been referring to as DME), and steeping between 1 and 4 pounds of milled grains like carapils, victory, chocolate malt, etc. - depending on the recipe.

I'm unsure what you mean by "Diastatic Power". I appreciate all the help.

 

[zachattack]

So up till now you've been steeping, not doing partial mashes. And you're looking for MO extract, not the malt itself. Unless you want to source some MO extract from northern brewer, you can swap some Munich extract for some of your DME as suggested, or try using a little victory/biscuit/etc in there. But I'm not sure which of those grains you can steep and which need to be mashed.

A mash is just a more careful steep with a base malt, which has available enzymes (diastatic power) to convert starch to sugar.

 

[mrphillips]

Doesn't steeping my milled/crushed grains between 148 and 155 degrees (+) extract for increased fermentables make it a partial mash?

 

[GuldTuborg]

Doesn't steeping my milled/crushed grains between 148 and 155 degrees (+) extract for increased fermentables make it a partial mash?

Nope. You need base malts with diastatic power able to convert starches to sugars (ideally with much more temp control than +/-3.5 degrees and a specific water to grain ratio). That's what makes it a mash.