Mandarina bavaria hop / orange Kolsch question...

[Garage12brewing]

Hi guys,

I do have a some leftover ingredients/hops that I want to use...

I would like to brew a kind of orange Kolsch using 1oz of dried orange peel I got in stock. I have some BITTER and SWEET orange peel and I dont know which one to use...

Here is the basic recipe I planned... should be an easy drinking beer with moderate bitterness. I dont want to brew a true Kolsch beer.

10lbs 2row malt
1lbs carapils
1oz Mandarina Bavaria hops 60min
1oz Mandarina Bavaria hops 30min
1oz dried orange peel 5min ********** BITTER or SWEET ?
1oz Mandarina Bavaria hops 0min
Wyeast Kolsch yeast

Thanks for the help!

CHEERS !!

 

[Coastalbrew]

I used Mandarina hops in a pale ale earlier this year and didn't get much orange flavor out of them. They were very subtle in flavor. Light citrus, almost more like honeysuckle to my palette. It was a pleasant beer, but I think would have benefited from either a bunch more Mandarina or perhaps another complementary hop. I don't remember the hop schedule off the to of my head, but as memory serves it was similar in quantity and timing to yours. Your orange peel idea is interesting. I haven't used it before though so can't give any feedback. Interested to hear others thoughts on that addition.

Cheers!

 

[Garage12brewing]

I used Mandarina hops in a pale ale earlier this year and didn't get much orange flavor out of them. They were very subtle in flavor. Light citrus, almost more like honeysuckle to my palette. It was a pleasant beer, but I think would have benefited from either a bunch more Mandarina or perhaps another complementary hop. I don't remember the hop schedule off the to of my head, but as memory serves it was similar in quantity and timing to yours. Your orange peel idea is interesting. I haven't used it before though so can't give any feedback. Interested to hear others thoughts on that addition.

Cheers!

Well... I know that the Bavaria mandarina hops doesnt give a 100% orange taste but I have them in stock... I am sure that the orange peel will give a good flavoring... but cant decide if I go with the sweet ones or bitter ones... might have to taste them raw haha or add both equally !

 

[Coastalbrew]

Well... I know that the Bavaria mandarina hops doesnt give a 100% orange taste but I have them in stock... I am sure that the orange peel will give a good flavoring... but cant decide if I go with the sweet ones or bitter ones... might have to taste them raw haha or add both equally !

It sounds like a good idea to me. I've heard about folks adding tinctures to finished beers to experiment with flavors and dosing levels for full batches. Would something like that work here?

 

[Jag75]

Get McCormicks Valencia orange peel. They're fantastic in the last 5 min of the boil

 

[AzOr]

I’m not sure if this answers your question or not……
I have added zest of Seville sour oranges to a blonde that tasted great. They are hard to find but I did see them at a farmers market. I zested w a potato peeler and three them in the freezer until I used. I was careful not to get the white pith. IIRC I threw them in the last 5 min but also fished them out of trub and put in the fermenter. I used the zest of one small orange and that was just the right amount.

So I guess I’m not sure what type of oranges are used for the bitter or sweet peels.

 

[Bilsch]

I guess I don't understand why try to make a Kölsch and intentionally step on it's delicate flavors with orange? Just saying.

 

[9Kegs]

Use both in a ratio of 2 to 1 (sweet to bitter)

 

[Jayjay1976]

I bought mandarina by the pound, not enough orange imo to carry a beer. I've had luck with a combination of sweet and bitter orange but my best result has been from simply grating the zest of a few clementines into a small jar with a shot of vodka to sanitize, then adding it to the fermenter just as primary fermentation is winding down. I've done it in kolsch and that turns out really well but my favorite is in a tripel brewed with orange blossom honey. I'm a really big fan of orange aromas in beer, in fact all I had on tap all summer long were orange themed brews.

 

[Miraculix]

If you want to brew a Kölsch, why on earth would you want to add orange? That's not a Kölsch, there is not such a thing as an orange Kölsch.

 

[rallenhall]

Orange kolsch ... go for it and create a new style. Not long ago there were no NEIPAs or pastry stouts either.

 

[schmurf]

But that's the beauty of homebrewing isn't it. Brew whatever one want whether it's orange kolsch or pale porter or a hoppy dark mild!

 

[Miraculix]

But that's the beauty of homebrewing isn't it. Brew whatever one want whether it's orange kolsch or pale porter or a hoppy dark mild!

Sure but at least name it what it is then, an orange ale.

I'm not going to bake a bread and name it a pie.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'm not going to bake a bread and name it a pie.

Well if you change your mind about baking that pie bread I hope somebody doesn't crap on your idea.

Also, its not Koelsch unless it's brewed in Cologne in the first place, so why be puritanical about it?

 

[Miraculix]

Well if you change your mind about baking that pie bread I hope somebody doesn't crap on your idea.

Also, its not Koelsch unless it's brewed in Cologne in the first place, so why be puritanical about it?

Because it's actually clearly defined what a Kölsch is. That is quiet rare but a Kölsch is a Kölsch. Just as a cat is not a dog is an orange ale not a Kölsch.

 

[ejf063]

 

[schmurf]

My comment earlier was just meant to be a funny remark. However, orange ale you say... why not orange lager? If he brew it as a kölsch but just add orange, what would make it an ale and not a lager?

 

[Jayjay1976]

My comment earlier was just meant to be a funny remark. However, orange ale you say... why not orange lager? If he brew it as a kölsch but just add orange, what would make it an ale and not a lager?

Koelsch is an ale fermented with Cerevisiae vs. Pastorianus yeast and then lagered.

 

[Miraculix]

My comment earlier was just meant to be a funny remark. However, orange ale you say... why not orange lager? If he brew it as a kölsch but just add orange, what would make it an ale and not a lager?

Lager it and call it an orange lager, no problem.

 

[schmurf]

Koelsch is an ale fermented at lager temps.

Not according to our friend ron pattinson

 

[Jayjay1976]

Lager it and call it an orange lager, no problem.

Or call it an orange Koelsch, it's really your business and nobody else's.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Not according to our friend ron pattinson

The difference, apart from fermentation or lagering, is cerevisiae ale yeast vs pastorianus lager yeast. Which happens to be top-fermenting.

 

[bwible]

I used Mandarina hops in a pale ale earlier this year and didn't get much orange flavor out of them. They were very subtle in flavor. Light citrus, almost more like honeysuckle to my palette. It was a pleasant beer, but I think would have benefited from either a bunch more Mandarina or perhaps another complementary hop. I don't remember the hop schedule off the to of my head, but as memory serves it was similar in quantity and timing to yours. Your orange peel idea is interesting. I haven't used it before though so can't give any feedback. Interested to hear others thoughts on that addition.

Cheers!

Yeah I’d heard that too how Mandarina Bavaria was supposed to produce this orange flavor. I tried it in an American wheat beer earlier this year. Sounded so good. I’m going to say I was not impressed.

 

[AzOr]

Why not call it Orange Krusch? Btw- In hot weather, I would crush your Orange Krusch. Sounds like a fine beer to me.

I will second the notion that Mandarina doesn't give off much orange or tangerine. I've used it a couple of times in a lager and it was underwhelming. Someone coulda swapped it out for Saaz and I would not have known. Maybe it's the amounts or methods I was using though. Or maybe it coulda been my blown palate. Still a good hop.

 

[Consigliere]

Recently did American wheat beer with 1.5kg of fresh peaches added to fermenter. I used 1oz MB hops and whirlpooled with them for 20min. Bittered to 20ibu with Loral and 5 IBU late additions from 1/4 oz of Loral and 1/2 oz lemon drop at 10 and 5 respectively. Not a simple recipe to say what the MB hops do but I definitely get a noticeable Mandarin/orange flavour from the beer. Peach is there in the aroma but not the mandarin.

I have never used the packed, dried peel. I would zest fresh oranges. 45g or so in a wit is nice and noticeable. For kolsch may want to back down to 20-25g to start.

might push the yeast to ferment a bit warm as well to get more esters. Despite the deviation from style I have found a kolsch base to be a great way to bring other flavours to the table from hops without needed a lot. It’s not a true kolsch by any means but that also is not the goal. I say brew on

 

[Jag75]

Let me throw this wrench in here ....


What makes a kolsch a kolsch?
Grain?
Water ?
Hops ?
Yeast ?

BTW, here's a kolsch that I brewed at the brewery. Even had some Coors light folks asking for it

 

[Miraculix]

Ron Pattinson is an unsavory turd.
The difference, apart from fermentation or lagering, is cerevisiae ale yeast vs pastorianus lager yeast. Which happens to be top-fermenting.

Nope, it is not. Much learning you must do young padawan!

Btw. I actually found that Ron is quite a respectful person, not even close to your description of him.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Nope, it is not. Much learning you must do young padawan!

Go on then, lay it out.

 

[Miraculix]

Go on then, lay it out.

Were would be the fun for you then? I got no time... Sitting at the office.

 

[AzOr]

I think orange and beer is underrated. In the 90’s a few bars would serve fat tire or other ambers w a slice of orange. I thought it worked great.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Were would be the fun for you then? I got no time... Sitting at the office.

okay boomer.

 

[Miraculix]

okay boomer.

I'm not quite familiar with this term. Shall that be an insult?

 

[Jag75]

I've seen some Brewing Co put out Blood Orange kolsch and Cran Orange Kolsch .

 

[AzOr]

A few months back a neighbor gave me a Boneyard blood orange pale ale. It was a solid beer. To me it tasted like a two hearted ale w orange peel.

 

[Brooothru]

Let me throw this wrench in here ....


What makes a kolsch a kolsch?
Grain?
Water ?
Hops ?
Yeast ?

BTW, here's a kolsch that I brewed at the brewery. Even had some Coors light folks asking for it

No fair posting a pic like that without a supporting recipe .

Three years ago we were camping at Lake Powell, and ambled into Page, AZ, to enjoy the local atmosphere and break the routine of camp food. Can't remember the name of the restaurant where we ended up (of course it was a brew pub), and when I asked for a local recommendation from the waitress she came out with the most pleasantly refreshing 'hint of orange' beer from their brewery. I didn't have the opportunity to ask to speak with the brewer or tie up any of the waitstaff to ask about the particulars of the beer. Just figured I'd wing it and come up with a passible recipe on my own. Several tries yielded marginal success. I wish I had some insight into a recipe that would hit it out of the park.

 

[Jag75]

No fair posting a pic like that without a supporting recipe .

Three years ago we were camping at Lake Powell, and ambled into Page, AZ, to enjoy the local atmosphere and break the routine of camp food. Can't remember the name of the restaurant where we ended up (of course it was a brew pub), and when I asked for a local recommendation from the waitress she came out with the most pleasantly refreshing 'hint of orange' beer from their brewery. I didn't have the opportunity to ask to speak with the brewer or tie up any of the waitstaff to ask about the particulars of the beer. Just figured I'd wing it and come up with a passible recipe on my own. Several tries yielded marginal success. I wish I had some insight into a recipe that would hit it out of the park.

Pale malt
Munich
Carapils
Hallertau
Tettnang
K-97

 

[Brooothru]

Pale malt
Munich
Carapils
Hallertau
Tettnang
K-97

No adjuncts like Sweet Orange Peel? Sub the 2-row for pilsner and it looks like Pils, Festbier or even Helles.

 

[Jag75]

No adjuncts like Sweet Orange Peel? Sub the 2-row for pilsner and it looks like Pils, Festbier or even Helles.

Orange peel in a kolsch!? ......that's not a kolsch

 

[Bilsch]

The definition for Kölsch, compared to most other styles, is actually quite simple thanks to the Kölsch-Konvention.



Das Kölsch

Kölsch ist ein helles, hochvergorenes, hopfenbetontes, blankes obergäriges Vollbier, welches in der sogenannten "Kölsch-Stange" (Kölner Stange) zum Ausschank kommt.

Es wird nach dem Deutschen Reinheitsgebot gebraut und darf nur in Brauereien Kölns und einigen des benachbarten Umlandes gebraut werden, die aufgrund ihrer langen Brautradition einen wertvollen Besitzstand haben.

 

[bwible]

Because it's actually clearly defined what a Kölsch is. That is quiet rare but a Kölsch is a Kölsch. Just as a cat is not a dog is an orange ale not a Kölsch.

Its clearly defined what an IPA is. But that didn’t stop people from changing it all around, clouding it up, adding flour to it, and all kinds of other stuff. This is just what homebrewers do. They add coco puffs, frosted flaked or waffles to beer too. I think sometimes just because they can. People have ideas and lets just say they are not all good ideas. Orange kolsch doesn’t sound too bad