Mandarina bavaria hop / orange Kolsch question...

[Jayjay1976]

Were would be the fun for you then? I got no time... Sitting at the office.

okay boomer.

 

[Miraculix]

okay boomer.

I'm not quite familiar with this term. Shall that be an insult?

 

[Jag75]

I've seen some Brewing Co put out Blood Orange kolsch and Cran Orange Kolsch .

 

[AzOr]

A few months back a neighbor gave me a Boneyard blood orange pale ale. It was a solid beer. To me it tasted like a two hearted ale w orange peel.

 

[Broothru]

Let me throw this wrench in here ....


What makes a kolsch a kolsch?
Grain?
Water ?
Hops ?
Yeast ?

BTW, here's a kolsch that I brewed at the brewery. Even had some Coors light folks asking for it

No fair posting a pic like that without a supporting recipe .

Three years ago we were camping at Lake Powell, and ambled into Page, AZ, to enjoy the local atmosphere and break the routine of camp food. Can't remember the name of the restaurant where we ended up (of course it was a brew pub), and when I asked for a local recommendation from the waitress she came out with the most pleasantly refreshing 'hint of orange' beer from their brewery. I didn't have the opportunity to ask to speak with the brewer or tie up any of the waitstaff to ask about the particulars of the beer. Just figured I'd wing it and come up with a passible recipe on my own. Several tries yielded marginal success. I wish I had some insight into a recipe that would hit it out of the park.

 

[Jag75]

No fair posting a pic like that without a supporting recipe .

Three years ago we were camping at Lake Powell, and ambled into Page, AZ, to enjoy the local atmosphere and break the routine of camp food. Can't remember the name of the restaurant where we ended up (of course it was a brew pub), and when I asked for a local recommendation from the waitress she came out with the most pleasantly refreshing 'hint of orange' beer from their brewery. I didn't have the opportunity to ask to speak with the brewer or tie up any of the waitstaff to ask about the particulars of the beer. Just figured I'd wing it and come up with a passible recipe on my own. Several tries yielded marginal success. I wish I had some insight into a recipe that would hit it out of the park.

Pale malt
Munich
Carapils
Hallertau
Tettnang
K-97

 

[Broothru]

Pale malt
Munich
Carapils
Hallertau
Tettnang
K-97

No adjuncts like Sweet Orange Peel? Sub the 2-row for pilsner and it looks like Pils, Festbier or even Helles.

 

[Jag75]

No adjuncts like Sweet Orange Peel? Sub the 2-row for pilsner and it looks like Pils, Festbier or even Helles.

Orange peel in a kolsch!? ......that's not a kolsch

 

[Bilsch]

The definition for Kölsch, compared to most other styles, is actually quite simple thanks to the Kölsch-Konvention.



Das Kölsch

Kölsch ist ein helles, hochvergorenes, hopfenbetontes, blankes obergäriges Vollbier, welches in der sogenannten "Kölsch-Stange" (Kölner Stange) zum Ausschank kommt.

Es wird nach dem Deutschen Reinheitsgebot gebraut und darf nur in Brauereien Kölns und einigen des benachbarten Umlandes gebraut werden, die aufgrund ihrer langen Brautradition einen wertvollen Besitzstand haben.

 

[bwible]

Because it's actually clearly defined what a Kölsch is. That is quiet rare but a Kölsch is a Kölsch. Just as a cat is not a dog is an orange ale not a Kölsch.

Its clearly defined what an IPA is. But that didn’t stop people from changing it all around, clouding it up, adding flour to it, and all kinds of other stuff. This is just what homebrewers do. They add coco puffs, frosted flaked or waffles to beer too. I think sometimes just because they can. People have ideas and lets just say they are not all good ideas. Orange kolsch doesn’t sound too bad

 

[bwible]

I'm not quite familiar with this term. Shall that be an insult?

Baby boomers (often shortened to boomers) are the demographic cohort following the Silent Generation and preceding Generation X. The generation is generally defined as people born from 1946 to 1964, during the post–World War II baby boom.

More than likely a younger person calling you old.

 

[Miraculix]

Its clearly defined what an IPA is. But that didn’t stop people from changing it all around, clouding it up, adding flour to it, and all kinds of other stuff. This is just what homebrewers do. They add coco puffs, frosted flaked or waffles to beer too. I think sometimes just because they can. People have ideas and lets just say they are not all good ideas. Orange kolsch doesn’t sound too bad

Yes, do experiments! All good!

Just name is accordingly. Kölsch is literally a registered thing it is specifically stated what it is. From the original people who are making it. Respect that.

This is not the case in most other beer categories, some of them even made up like ESB or wee heavy. Made up by people who are not even from the country where these styles are supposed to be existing.

 

[Miraculix]

Baby boomers (often shortened to boomers) are the demographic cohort following the Silent Generation and preceding Generation X. The generation is generally defined as people born from 1946 to 1964, during the post–World War II baby boom.

More than likely a younger person calling you old.

Thanks, I'm from the 80s, so probably doesn't really fit.

 

[bwible]

I’m past getting hung up on specific style definitions - they were just written to be reflective of what is or was being brewed and sold with success at any point in time anyway. Styles have been changing for decades, since Sierra Nevada first changed everything. A beer doesn’t need to fit a specific style definition to be a good beer. And we’re not selling our beer. It’s not for the public. It’s never going to be on a store shelf or written about by any beer writers. So who cares what you call it if only you and maybe a couple friends are the only ones who will ever see it or taste it? You’re not breaking any laws or violating any appellations, etc.

I’m all for experiments. But the end result is some quantity of beer. Depending on whether people are brewing 1 gallon, 3 gallons, 5 gallons, more, or a different batch size. So before somebody sets out to brew a chocolate chicken chipotle porter with waffles and coco puffs - the question to be asked goes “Does this sound like something I’m going to want to drink x gallons of?” Thats all I’m saying with regards to “experiments”.

 

[Miraculix]

I’m past getting hung up on specific style definitions - they were just written to be reflective of what is or was being brewed and sold with success at any point in time anyway. Styles have been changing for decades, since Sierra Nevada first changed everything. A beer doesn’t need to fit a specific style definition to be a good beer. And we’re not selling our beer. It’s not for the public. It’s never going to be on a store shelf or written about by any beer writers. So who cares what you call it if only you and maybe a couple friends are the only ones who will ever see it or taste it? You’re not breaking any laws or violating any appellations, etc.

I’m all for experiments. But the end result is some quantity of beer. Depending on whether people are brewing 1 gallon, 3 gallons, 5 gallons, more, or a different batch size. So before somebody sets out to brew a chocolate chicken chipotle porter with waffles and coco puffs - the question to be asked goes “Does this sound like something I’m going to want to drink x gallons of?” Thats all I’m saying with regards to “experiments”.

I understand that. But go to cologne, give them one of the described orange beers to try and tell them that's an orange Kölsch. Most of them will most definitely tell you that this certainly is not a Kölsch and some of them might even go further and tell you that this is not a beer.

So by all means do all the experiments and add whatever satisfies either your taste or your curiosity, but at least keep in mind that some specific things are very much narrowed down in terms of what it is and what it is not. We Germans love that, we need our boxes where we can organise our world with. And this is a German invention. There is no such thing as an orange kölsch, that's simply it

 

[madscientist451]

Ron Pattinson is an unsavory turd.

My first thought is that if an "unsavory turd" exists, then what does a "savory turd" taste like?
My second thought is that now I have inspiration to start my Nano-Brewery/Bistro, which will be named Savory Turd Brewing.
All beers produced by Savory Turd Brewing will be brewed in the Kolsch style, but I'll add all kinds of fruit, cocoa nibs, spices and the like, just for fun to see if anyone says anything. With any luck, there will be a street protest by the group "ALL KOLCH MATTERS", I'll get tons of free publicity and I can sell the brewpub for big money and retire.
OK, my apology for going but I'm just poking fun at you folks that are taking things a little too seriously.

But back to the OP's question, I think 3 oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch is a little heavy handed. I'd go lighter with the hops and add the McCormicks orange extract or an orange tincture to taste at packaging as suggested above. Let us know if you like it.

 

[bwible]

I understand that. But go to cologne, give them one of the described orange beers to try and tell them that's an orange Kölsch. Most of them will most definitely tell you that this certainly is not a Kölsch and some of them might even go further and tell you that this is not a beer.

So by all means do all the experiments and add whatever satisfies either your taste or your curiosity, but at least keep in mind that some specific things are very much narrowed down in terms of what it is and what it is not. We Germans love that, we need our boxes where we can organise our world with. And this is a German invention. There is no such thing as an orange kölsch, that's simply it

Now all that said I do read up on styles and try to brew using the right ingredients and a reasonable recipe. Maris Otter and British hops for a bitter, Pilsener and noble hops for a lager, etc. The guidelines reflect commercial beers being sold. So of course it pays to follow the guidelines.

Kolsch was never one of my pet styles. I’ve had some and enjoyed them but I don’t brew or usually buy them. I buy lagers like Weihenstephaner, etc. Because I love those and I can’t brew anything close to those.

 

[Miraculix]

My first thought is that if an "unsavory turd" exists, then what does a "savory turd" taste like?
My second thought is that now I have inspiration to start my Nano-Brewery/Bistro, which will be named Savory Turd Brewing.
All beers produced by Savory Turd Brewing will be brewed in the Kolsch style, but I'll add all kinds of fruit, cocoa nibs, spices and the like, just for fun to see if anyone says anything. With any luck, there will be a street protest by the group "ALL KOLCH MATTERS", I'll get tons of free publicity and I can sell the brewpub for big money and retire.
OK, my apology for going but I'm just poking fun at you folks that are taking things a little too seriously.

But back to the OP's question, I think 3 oz of hops in a 5 gallon batch is a little heavy handed. I'd go lighter with the hops and add the McCormicks orange extract or an orange tincture to taste at packaging as suggested above. Let us know if you like it.

That made me giggle

 

[Miraculix]

Now all that said I do read up on styles and try to brew using the right ingredients and a reasonable recipe. Maris Otter and British hops for a bitter, Pilsener and noble hops for a lager, etc. The guidelines reflect commercial beers being sold. So of course it pays to follow the guidelines.

Kolsch was never one of my pet styles. I’ve had some and enjoyed them but I don’t brew or usually buy them. I buy lagers like Weihenstephaner, etc. Because I love those and I can’t brew anything close to those.

Fun thing is, there's probably nobody else on this forum who couldn't give less on guidelines than me. Especially if these guidelines are made up by somebody who had no connection to what he is actually writing about.

But this one is different. There is not a guideline there, there is even something like a law behind that. And it comes from the country where the beer comes from and from the people who invented it So it's like a little protection and appreciation at the same time by respecting this.

Legally you would even need to brew within the area of the city and some more things, ok, screw that, that is an economical protection. But the rest, ingredients, result, that should be as described, otherwise it's just something different, not a kölsch.

 

[Jayjay1976]

People have ideas and lets just say they are not all good ideas.

Yeah.
Clown Pianist, anyone?

 

[Homebrew Harry]

Mmmm...Orange Kolsch

 

[madscientist451]

Did some hunting around for Orange Kolsch ideas and turns out BierMuncher put up a recipe here on HBT in 2007 that includes orange peel and coriander, he stated that the taste was "fantastic" :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/orange-kolsch-ag-ex.30918/Here's an article where the author infused commercial a Kolsch with orange and vanilla bean:
https://patspints.com/2014/12/16/a-kolsch-an-orange-and-a-vanilla-bean-walk-into-a-bar/For more ideas just search "Orange Kolsch Recipes" there's lots more including a you tube video.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Fun thing is, there's probably nobody else on this forum who couldn't give less on guidelines than me. Especially if these guidelines are made up by somebody who had no connection to what he is actually writing about.

But this one is different. There is not a guideline there, there is even something like a law behind that. And it comes from the country where the beer comes from and from the people who invented it So it's like a little protection and appreciation at the same time by respecting this.

Legally you would even need to brew within the area of the city and some more things, ok, screw that, that is an economical protection. But the rest, ingredients, result, that should be as described, otherwise it's just something different, not a kölsch.

Just brewed up 12 gallons of my latest Kölsch recipe.

 

[madscientist451]

Uh-oh, looks like a porter/stout/Black IPA from here. The Beer police will be there soon.....

 

[Jayjay1976]

BierMuncher put up a recipe here on HBT in 2007 that includes orange peel and coriander, he stated that the taste was "fantastic"

This BierMuncher is a heretic and must be stopped! Grab your tiki torches!

 

[Homebrew Harry]

Yes, that looks a little dark for a Kolsh, but who am I to say

 

[Jayjay1976]

All the pearl-clutching going on in here, all over some guy adding a bit of orange peel to a beer and still having the audacity to call it Kölsch. Where's my fainting couch when I need it?!

 

[Jayjay1976]

Uh-oh, looks like a porter/stout/Black IPA from here. The Beer police will be there soon.....

I like to add a pinch of Carafa III.
I call it "Doc Jayjay's Authentic Bootyfinger Kölsch". As a semi-professional proctologist, I feel entitled to call it that.

 

[Beermeister32]

Orange Kolsch sounds like a good possible beer. I did a Citra Pils this year, turned out fine. Using Citra hops in a Pilsner is also not to style, but makes an interesting brew.

 

[madscientist451]

I like to add a pinch of Carafa III.
I call it "Doc Jayjay's Authentic Bootyfinger Kölsch". As a semi-professional proctologist, I feel entitled to call it that.

OK, thanks, now I know how you coined the phrase "unsavory turd". I'll be able to sleep better tonight.....