Man, I love Apfelwein

CornyKegs 728
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BigKahuna said:
Alcohol tends to do very funny (or Not So Funny) things to plastics. If you don't have the right kind of plastic...you'll at best come up with off flavors. The chemicals can make you sick as hell.
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Does anyone have a metafilter acct so we can toss an inquiry to the hive mind?

Something like "does alcohol cause problems with plastic bottle x?"
 
So my Apfelwein has been fermenting for a week now. Original recipe, but used Mott's applejuice and a 6 gallon instead of a 5 (with 5 gallons of juice). After a week it has a pretty strong vinegary smell coming out of the airlock. The rhino farts are gone, but this doesn't really smell pleasant right now. I had to put the installation rod into the better bottle a few times to tighten the spigot. I did sanitize it, but I'm worried it maybe wasn't enough. Could this be a sign of infection? Never had one before, don't really know what to expect when it happens.
 
Mr. Awesome said:
So my Apfelwein has been fermenting for a week now. Original recipe, but used Mott's applejuice and a 6 gallon instead of a 5 (with 5 gallons of juice). After a week it has a pretty strong vinegary smell coming out of the airlock. The rhino farts are gone, but this doesn't really smell pleasant right now. I had to put the installation rod into the better bottle a few times to tighten the spigot. I did sanitize it, but I'm worried it maybe wasn't enough. Could this be a sign of infection? Never had one before, don't really know what to expect when it happens.
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Do you still have bubbles? It should be actively fermenting still. I know that after only a week, and depending on the yeast you use, it might not smell too pleasant.

That said, I don't really know for sure what an infection, particularly a vinegar bacteria one, would be like for sure as I've never had one yet myself (knock on wood).
 
Want to make my first batch, and have two questions:

1. Ed's original 5 gal recipe used 5gr pack of Monty. I'm making 2.5 gals and want it a little sweeter, so considering Wyeast 3068 that I picked from another thread here. Since I am halving the recipe, would I simply use 2.5gr of this yeast, or another amount since it is a different type?

2. I bottle my small batches of beer in PET with screw on caps. This works for me since they do not sit around long after 3-4 weeks of conditioning. From reading the posts it seems that the AW may take longer to ripen than beer, so I am wondering if my screw on caps will be okay for this or if I need to get glass bottles?

Thanks.
 
So I was reading the Wikipedia page about Fusel alcohols:
Fusel alcohols are formed when fermentation occurs:

* at higher temperatures,
* at lower pH,
* when yeast activity is limited by low nitrogen content.
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I pretty much knew that apple juice was acid (it's the natural tartness), so I did some research: http://www.brewerylane.com/cider_making.html

Compared to wort, apple juice has a much lower pH, a much lower soluble nitrogen content, and a virtual absence of any sugars other than mono- and di-saccharides.

Apple juice usually contains one eighth of the soluble nitrogen content of wort.

[...]

Once the juice is separated from the pulp you must check the pH. If the correct balance of apple varieties is used, this step may be omitted. Few of us are fortunate enough to obtain the correct types so some compensation must be made to ensure that there is sufficient sharpness but that it is not overdone. pH should be in the range 3.9 to 4.0.
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So apple juice is at least 10 times more acid than wort and has 1/8th the amount of free amino acid.

He does go on to say:

Higher or fusel alcohols are formed; unlike beer where they are unwanted compounds, in cider they form important components of the flavour profile.
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I guess this is the reason for the wicked hangovers.

Although the recipe as is is quite good, I would be interested in adding at least more free amino nitrogen to help the yeast out a bit, to get less of the wicked hangover syndrome.

So, how can I add FAN? Is that what yeast nutrient is? (Diammonium sulphate IIRC). I will look up what to do with extract brewing (LME has low FAN content as well).
 
Wait... I'm going to have wicked hangovers when I finally drink my first batch? :eek:

I added 1/2 tsp. of Wyeast Nutrient Blend to it, which claims it adds inorganic and organic nitrogen (among other things)-- I don't know if that's the same as FAN.

I guess I'll just have to take twice as much vitamin B before I drink my Ed's Apfelwein! :D
 
SavageSteve said:
Wait... I'm going to have wicked hangovers when I finally drink my first batch? :eek:

I added 1/2 tsp. of Wyeast Nutrient Blend to it, which claims it adds inorganic and organic nitrogen (among other things)-- I don't know if that's the same as FAN.

I guess I'll just have to take twice as much vitamin B before I drink my Ed's Apfelwein! :D
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You mean you didn't read the whole first post???:

EdWort said:
GENERAL WARNINGS

Excessive consumption of Apfelwein WILL get you drunk at warp speed.

Drink a quart of water and take 3 aspirin before going to sleep tol help reduce the effects of excessive Apfelwein consumption as well as the urge to call EdWort a M'F**kR the next morning! :D
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Yeah, you added the right stuff, but what I've heard for mead (which has even less than nitrogen than apple juice) is 1tsp per gallon. Although you've most likely added enough to help, I don't think you will affect the supposed "taste" the fusel alcohols add to Apfelwein.

Edit: Also, do a search for topic titles: "Damn Apfelwein" and such.
 
mrfocus said:
You mean you didn't read the whole first post???
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Well, yeah... actually several times. I guess I just glossed over what my brain didn't want to hear! Besides, getting drunk at warp speed sounds like too much fun.

The 1/2 tsp. of nutrient blend was what was indicated on the bottle-- which is obviously the right amount for wort, but perhaps not for apple juice. We'll see what happens.

My whole house smells like apples right now-- the fermentation is just rolling along like it will never quit.
 
So no one can give an informed opinion on whether or not it's OK to dump another 5 gallons of juice and 2 pounds of Dextrose into my fermenter on top of the leftover yeast after siphoning off the Apfelwein?

Someone MUST have tried this?
 
mrfocus said:
So I was reading the Wikipedia page about Fusel alcohols:


I pretty much knew that apple juice was acid (it's the natural tartness), so I did some research: http://www.brewerylane.com/cider_making.html



So apple juice is at least 10 times more acid than wort and has 1/8th the amount of free amino acid.

He does go on to say:



I guess this is the reason for the wicked hangovers.

Although the recipe as is is quite good, I would be interested in adding at least more free amino nitrogen to help the yeast out a bit, to get less of the wicked hangover syndrome.

So, how can I add FAN? Is that what yeast nutrient is? (Diammonium sulphate IIRC). I will look up what to do with extract brewing (LME has low FAN content as well).
Click to expand...

I read that if you add too much FAN, you can end up with even more fusel oil than not. I believe it all comes down to having a balance of FAN in your wort/must. But since we don't have figures here, it's hard to tell what amounts of FAN to add.

http://www.draymans.com/articles/arts/13.html
 
Pete

From what ive read re-using mead and cider yeast doesnt work too well. I think the higher alc % kills a larger percentage.

For best results its best to pitch new
 
PeteOz77 said:
So no one can give an informed opinion on whether or not it's OK to dump another 5 gallons of juice and 2 pounds of Dextrose into my fermenter on top of the leftover yeast after siphoning off the Apfelwein?

Someone MUST have tried this?
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I've never done it, but how different is that from piching a new beer onto an old yeastcake from your previous batch of beer?

The only real difference is that the ingredients for both batches are exactly the same, so there's no risk of off flavors from the previous batch (That's why it's recommended to go darker when you do it with beer. IPA-Stout as opposed to the other way around. )

The worst case scenario I can see is that since the wineyeast ferments nearly complete, they may be tired puppies. It may take some yeast energizer and yeast nutrient to get them going again....or they may be dead.

But it would be worth a shot to try, you can always repitch some yeast. ANd if the colony is dead then it is great nutrients for the new yeast. You won't ruin your apfelwein...It just won't ferment right away.

One thing you could do as a backup- Before you add the next batch, suck up some of the old yeast and must into a sanitized container like a growler. Then add 2 quarts of fresh juice and maybe a quarter cup of dextros, and shake the heck out of it and add an airlock and let it grow for a day or more....In other words, you're making a starter.

Go ahead an mix up your new batch of Apfelwein onto the old cake...and if in a few days fermentation hasn't occured then you can pitch your 1/2 growler full of starter into it.

When I was making my first batch I was concerned about the ascorbic acid in my juice. I had posted a question about it, but noone was around to answer it that morning, so I called my LHBS and the owner suggested that I make a starter to make sure the yeast would work with the juice. I did it over night and pitched with no problem.

I'd definitely use a blowoff tube.
 
I am planning on making a batch soon. The recipe calls for 2 lbs of dextrose which, as I understand it, gives it the slightly increased alcohol content. If I wanted a slightly smaller alcohol content (6-7% ish) could I just add a little less dextrose and arrive at the same general flavor?
 
Zappa42 said:
I am planning on making a batch soon. The recipe calls for 2 lbs of dextrose which, as I understand it, gives it the slightly increased alcohol content. If I wanted a slightly smaller alcohol content (6-7% ish) could I just add a little less dextrose and arrive at the same general flavor?
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It also makes it dryer and gives it a crisper finish. 1 lb. should do what you want.
 
Zappa42 said:
I am planning on making a batch soon. The recipe calls for 2 lbs of dextrose which, as I understand it, gives it the slightly increased alcohol content. If I wanted a slightly smaller alcohol content (6-7% ish) could I just add a little less dextrose and arrive at the same general flavor?
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I did one pound on my last batch, personally I liked that batch better than the two pound batch.
 
so how long on average does this stuff take to ferment? I started on Feb. 7th and there is activity in the airlock about every 15-17 seconds. I'd take a hydrometer reading, but it broke. Also, how long after the start of fermentation does it take for the yeast to fall out?

-J
 
I started my first batch on the 8th...I'm going to do what the Master said on Page 1 of this thread. I built it, I'm leaving it alone for 8 weeks. Then I will bottle it. 1/2 carbed, 1/2 still. This is how he said to do it...that's what I'm gonna do.
I will Screw around with other sugars, other yeast, other juice...all later. This batch is an 8 week recipe, I'll bet that is what it's gonna take.
 
jeremy13586 said:
so how long on average does this stuff take to ferment? I started on Feb. 7th and there is activity in the airlock about every 15-17 seconds. I'd take a hydrometer reading, but it broke. Also, how long after the start of fermentation does it take for the yeast to fall out?
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Depends on the temp. Wait 6 to 8 weeks before racking to bottle. The yeast should be starting to drop out when the bubbler slows down. If you look at the side of the carboy with a flashlight, you will see thousand of little bubbles rising to the surface.
 
Picked up my apple juice today. I bought Tree Top brand apple juice with no sugar added. It said it was from concentrate. Will this be Ok? There did not appear to be any additives in it.
 
I'm not sure if my first batch is even going to make it to bottles!


I took a gravity check 3 days ago, and SWMBO tried some of it... and promptly became hooked (as did I)

Now she keeps asking me, "can we siphon some more apfelweine out?"


finally i filled an empty wine bottle for her last night... it's still at about 1.014, and it's getting consumed pretty quickly by the two of us...

I bet it tastes really good aged, but i don't know if i'll even make it to FG before it's gone... that's some tasty stuff!

:rockin:
 
debaniel said:
...

finally i filled an empty wine bottle for her last night... it's still at about 1.014, and it's getting consumed pretty quickly by the two of us...
...
:rockin:
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That's still pretty sweet. It's going to be very different tasting once it's gone below 1.0. I just want to make sure you know it's going to be much more like a dry wine, and less like cider than you have sampled now.
 
Does the carboy need to be kept at a certain tem (i.e. like beer) and does it need to kept in the dark when brewing Apfelwein? My house stays at the low 70s this time of year.
 
My SWMBO doesn't like beer. At all. For the most part, she prefers alcohol with a high alcohol to volume ratio, so the stronger the better. She likes the sound of this apfelwein, but at 8.5%, she just doesn't want to have to consume a large volume of liquid. I am making the original recipe for myself tomorrow, but I didn't want to wait 8 or more weeks to start a more potent batch for her.

What would press the limits of the yeast, as far as ABV? I don't want to only add sugar, I was thinking two or three cans of concentrate to add sugar and flavor, and another two pounds of dextrose, to get it to the 13%-14% mark. Would that do the trick, or would I need more sugar yet (or did I overestimate what it would take)?
 
Moonshae said:
She likes the sound of this apfelwein, but at 8.5%, she just doesn't want to have to consume a large volume of liquid.
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Apfelwein has been know to take down very large men by drinking a few glasses. I dare your wife to be able to consume a "large volume" of Ed Wort's Apfelwein (as the recipe is written) at one time. :drunk:
 
Agreed, this stuff is potent! And you don't notice how much you've had nearly as much as beer, possibly because of the density.
 
Ditto -

I agree you shouldn't try amping it up w/o trying the original. It will GYFURF!!! :D

No kidding!!! I drank a two quarts of this w/o much of dinner. I believe I polished it off at 11PM. I was waiting for the rehydrated yeast to cool as I watched TV...

.... I woke up on the couch at 7AM thinking. WTF???

I had to wait two days to see if I pitched my yeast!!! I didn't remember doing it at all.

ABV-wise it was like knocking back 10 beers at 4% - :drunk:
 
but at 8.5%, she just doesn't want to have to consume a large volume of liquid.

AHAHAHAH yea 2 glasses and she will be 1 of 2 things.

Puking her guts out or humping your leg-

I got home one day early on a friday- I filled my fav .5L glass and proceeded to drink. I got a phone call from the boss about 2 sips into my second glass. She proceeded to ask me if I was hittign the applewine... lol
 
At 8.5% its not wine, but damn if it won't kick your ask hard as a MF'r.

Believe me its easy to swill and be 3 sheets to the wind. 2 for the price of 1 in ABV

Its at least a 50% decrease in fluid volumne. Doubley-the-Rate of F'd-up-ness.


Like I said try it first. If you want wine at 14-16% buy some cheap $hit. Most of us are after good tasting quality homebrew and not about gettin' fubared. But it happens sometimes!!

8.5% is not a common ABV. You'd be surprised how f'd up people get on 8.5%. Its low enough that it unsuspecting people will think they got ruffied!!

Why does my A$$ hurt???
 
Does Apfelwein need to be stored in a dark place like beer?

When bottling do you need be concerned with oxygenation and not splash etc.?
 
Thwizzit said:
Does Apfelwein need to be stored in a dark place like beer?

When bottling do you need be concerned with oxygenation and not splash etc.?
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No, AW Doesn't get off flavors from being light struck like beer. (Because there's no hops) If you can, keep it in a dark place or covered. If its in a carboy you can fit a T-shirt over the bottle. I often use a box w/ the hole cut out on the bottom for the airlock and drop it over the top.

Yes - Be carefull w/ bottling to not to splash AW. Wines are more suseptable to oxidation. If you plan to do long storage in a carboy, like going to a secondary, minimize the head space by topping up with pastuerized cider. I've done this when I made raspberry & strawberry AW.
 
Thanks for the reply :) I forgot to ask, I'm making a 1/2 batch in my spare Mr, Beer and I used about 1 1/4 lbs of dextrose and I forgot what I was doing and used the entire packet of Cote de Blanc yeast instead of 1/2 like I was planning. Will using that much yeast make a big difference in the final product?

Oh, and in the directions is says ' After 4 weeks the yeast will drop out and become clear. After at least 4 weeks you can bottle' is that 4 more weeks to bottle (8 weeks fermenting) or is that the same four weeks?
 

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