malts that add sweetness

[stickyfinger]

I'm looking for particular malts and amounts per 5-6 gallon batch that will lend a sweetness or perception of sweetness to beer. I've heard honey malt can fit the bill but can give a weird funky, sour character as well. I think maybe light crystal in high amounts can fit the bill.

 

[BigEd]

What style of beer are you brewing?

 

[Joewalla88]

If you're just asking in general, I personally like using honey malt, c40, and c80, or a combo of both. Depends on what I'm making though. I usually use 1- 1.5 lbs when I'm going for sweetness, but that's depending on what I'm making, and how sweet I'm wanting it to be.

 

[Calder]

It seems that you either like honey malt or you hate it.

I can't stand it. I think 0.5 lbs in a batch is way too much.

 

[Joewalla88]

I like it with a lot of fruit forward hops. Especially amarillo.

 

[stickyfinger]

I'm just asking in general. In particular, I'd like to get more sweetness into some of my hoppy beers, as my massive dry hops sometimes really dry out the beer too much for my taste. (I guess I could dry hop less, but that's just stupid!!)

 

[BigEd]

I'm just asking in general. In particular, I'd like to get more sweetness into some of my hoppy beers, as my massive dry hops sometimes really dry out the beer too much for my taste. (I guess I could dry hop less, but that's just stupid!!)

Dry hopping doesn't really dry out a beer, that's a function of the beer itself. Your choice of base malt, mashing, and yeast will have a big influence on the sweetness of the finished beer. BTW are you looking for simple "sweetness" or maltiness.

 

[stickyfinger]

Dry hopping doesn't really dry out a beer, that's a function of the beer itself. Your choice of base malt, mashing, and yeast will have a big influence on the sweetness of the finished beer. BTW are you looking for simple "sweetness" or maltiness.

I don't want maltiness. I completely disagree with you on dry-hopping. Some hop varieties definitely dry out a beer.

 

[eric19312]

I find Vienna adds sweetness to IPAs. Even with good attenuation they will have a sweetness that I don't get from Munich and it is also different than caramel. Also some base malts seem sweeter than others.

 

[stickyfinger]

I find Vienna adds sweetness to IPAs. Even with good attenuation they will have a sweetness that I don't get from Munich and it is also different than caramel. Also some base malts seem sweeter than others.

cool. that was my hope

 

[kh54s10]

I don't want maltiness. I completely disagree with you on dry-hopping. Some hop varieties definitely dry out a beer.

Hop varieties may give the perception of drying the beer but they do not do that. Dry is determined by the grain or extract recipe, how it is mashed if all grain and how it fermented. Adding a lot of sugar will definitely do it.

Most all of the crystals and a lot of the specialty malts will add sweetness. They also change the malty flavor. It takes some experimenting to get a sweetness and malt balance that you will prefer.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Per Breiss, their Vienna malt is less sweet than their similarly color contributing Pale Ale malt, so for your goal it would be better to try Pale Ale malt vs, Vienna. They list both of their Munich malts as slightly sweet. Ashburn Mild malt is listed as sweet.

I would also consider water with about 80 to 100 ppm Cl- and zero ppm S04--

Some say that at concentrations at or below 100 ppm, Na+ also contributes beneficially.

Lactose will add noticeable unfermentable sweetness. Similar but much less noticeable on the sweetness front would be Malto-Dextrin.

 

[BigEd]

I don't want maltiness.

Then use a significant addition of crystal malts and use a less attenuative yeast.

I completely disagree with you on dry-hopping. Some hop varieties definitely dry out a beer.

That is your privilege, however, you are wrong. You might get some sort of masking effect but dry-hopping does nothing to change the sugar, alcohol, or IBU content of a beer.

 

[MaryB]

Golden promise adds a sweet malty backbone... it is my main house ale malt!

 

[stickyfinger]

Golden promise adds a sweet malty backbone... it is my main house ale malt!

i was thinking about that. i used it in an irish red that had a pleasant sweet finish

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Golden promise adds a sweet malty backbone... it is my main house ale malt!

This makes sense, as Golden Promise is a Scottish pale ale malt.

 

[Queequeg]

Golden promise is quite sweet. Caramalt also provides a light sweetness.

 

[Mobstar]

I don't want maltiness. I completely disagree with you on dry-hopping. Some hop varieties definitely dry out a beer.

I agree with you here.
When you add dry hops in secondary it seems to wake up the yeast and drop down the gravity. It happened to a couple of my batches. I added an oz or 2 of cascade pellets and there was a huge reaction. then the air lock starts bubbling for days after. It's almost like adding sugar to soda. the Co2 reacts with the pellets which shakes things up a lot.
I find dry hopping with cones prevents this from happening.

 

[stickyfinger]

I agree with you here.
When you add dry hops in secondary it seems to wake up the yeast and drop down the gravity. It happened to a couple of my batches. I added an oz or 2 of cascade pellets and there was a huge reaction. then the air lock starts bubbling for days after. It's almost like adding sugar to soda. the Co2 reacts with the pellets which shakes things up a lot.
I find dry hopping with cones prevents this from happening.

probably most that the CO2 is coming out of solution when the bubbles form on the hop particles. They can definitely leave a drying astringency in the beer though. I've dried out a somewhat sweet barleywine with a massive dryhop before thanks to the slight astringency.

 

[BrunDog]

I don't want maltiness. I completely disagree with you on dry-hopping. Some hop varieties definitely dry out a beer.

Maybe a different definition of dry. Hopping can add bitterness and structure - but that is not the technical definition of dryness, which in brewing refers to residual sugars. Dryness yields a crisp or tart mouthfeel. It aids in "drinkability" but is not appropriate for many styles.

 

[LKABrewer]

I like Weyermann Cara-red for adding a little candy-like sweetness to a beer.

 

[stickyfinger]

Maybe a different definition of dry. Hopping can add bitterness and structure - but that is not the technical definition of dryness, which in brewing refers to residual sugars. Dryness yields a crisp or tart mouthfeel. It aids in "drinkability" but is not appropriate for many styles.

Some define dryness as residual sugars. I define it as how sweet a beverage is compared with typical or another style. I find that to be a much more useful definition. Besides, you can mash one beer higher and one lower and wind up with two beers that taste the same. One ends at 1.020, the other at 1.015 for example. Is the 1.015 dryer, not to me if it tastes the same. I would call the lower FG beer more attenuated.

According to my definition (not sure who all uses my definition, but I'm sure more than just me!) hopping will increase dryness in this instance.

In any case, I am interested in making a beer that is sweeter according to my definition, not one that ends with a higher FG (not necessarily mutually exclusive of course.)

 

[Crucial-BBQ]

Homebrewer: maltiness = sweetness.
Pro-brewer : maltiness = malt character.

I think I know that sweetness that you you are asking about; I have achieved it a few times and I find it reminiscent of angel food cake. I used basic Briess 2-row brewer's malt, mashed low (139 F) for 90 minutes, and then did what most around here would consider to under-pitch. That is, I only used one vile per 5 gallon batch--no starter.

 

[Mike_McBrew]

You can adjust the final gravity in various ways (sugar content sweetness).

63 to 65 C will give more simple sugars which are highly fermentable (a longer mash duration is generally needed) whereas 68 to 69 C will leave behind more complex sugars and a higher final gravity. For a given yeast in both cases. In general terms yeasts will fully convert simple sugars but not manage to convert all complex sugars leaving a higher final sugar content / gravity.

If you have the capacity to do a multi step brew then you can control this even further. Multi step infusion brewing, Blichman RIMS, Grainfather, Braumeister, the Electric Brewery etc.

A lower attenuating yeast will convert less sugars in general terms.

Some grains will yield less simple sugars, leaving behind more complex sugars leading to higher gravity. Complex multi step brewing can render almost any grain into a state where all the starch (essentially a very complex / unfermentable sugar) is converted into simple sugars.

Then you have perceived sweetness that some grains provide - although this is probably just the same thing as in the paragraph above and would therefore be affected by the temp profile of the brew.

Adding sugar in the boil can affect residual sugar, everyday sugar (cane sugar) adds dryness (100% fermentable), adding complex sugar adds sweetness. Honey at the end of the boil adds sweetness and flavour, added at the beginning of the boil it would just add sweetness since the flavours and aromas would mostly be boiled off.

High bitterness, imperial IPA at 100+ IBU, might hide sweetness since it dulls taste buds to other flavours. High dry hopping might also hide sweetness since the hops may overpower other flavours. Neither would change the higher mouthfeel if high gravity beers (probably).

 

[Crucial-BBQ]

I'm not really sure how I got that cake taste, but for three batches in row it was there. I'm guessing that my mush tun, a 10 gallon cooler that is a decade old, must have lost its insulating properties. All three were targeted at over 150 F but after a half hour or so all three mashes had dropped to 140 F or lower. That's why I let them ride for 90 minutes. I have since retired that mash tun and have not experienced that sweetness since. I have also considered possible contamination, but I dunno. Possible, I suppose.

 

[WitShadow]

I find Maris Otter adds a bit of body and sweetness (or "malt character") to pale ales and IPA's in comparison to American pale ale malts, as do of course all the caramel/crystal, Chocolate, and Munich malts.

Also, as Mike said above, mash at a higher temperature (69 C is often considered optimal) which will increase sweetness due to residual unfermentable sugars.

Stick with American yeast strains (whether liquid, or Saf-05) as British strains generally attenuate more leaving a drier feel. Back when I predominantly used dry yeast due to local scarcity of liquid yeasts, I would use 1.5 packs of Safale 05 and 0.5 pack of 04 to get a nice balance between sweetness and dryness in APAs and IPAs that had a fair amount of specialty malts (usually Munichs (light and dark) and one or two Caramels).

Keep the temperature constant, or slowly lower it (or even cold crash it) to keep some sweetness. If the temperature rises during fermentation, your yeast will likely attenuate more, leaving a drier beer.

As a final note, you probably don't want to try all these at once as you may end up overdoing it. Baby steps.

Happy brewing!

 

[2005732]

I found whirlpooling certain hops can add a lot of perception of sweetness also ... in styles that are suited to it.

 

[stickyfinger]

As a followup, I have found the honey malt is an excellent way to give a perception of sweetness. Also, using less attenuative yeast really helps, which seems obvious.

 

[Rhaop]

As a followup, I have found the honey malt is an excellent way to give a perception of sweetness. Also, using less attenuative yeast really helps, which seems obvious.

I will second the honey malt I like using it in 1/4 lb -1/2 lb additions I haven’t tried using a full lb in 5 gallons yet

 

[WitShadow]

I find you get ample sweetness with a little blend of caramel and munich malts - go lighter or darker based on your own goals and preferences, and Vienna works too. Frankly, if you're finding enough sweetness in the IPA's you buy but not your own, then this should be enough as most recipes stick to this route. Remember that the base of a great IPA is all about the balance between bitter hops and sweet malt, and most brewers can do it with just these basics.

If you want to take it a step further than most American IPAs, try Maris Otter for your base malt instead of US or German pale ale malts. However, if you find your beers to be too dry, do not go across the pond for your yeast - be sure to stick with the US ale yeasts, not English or Irish ones. You can also mash at higher temps for a fuller body which adds to the perception of sweetness, if not actual sweetness, and do not add any sugar to your boil, which (possibly counterintuitively) lightens the body and thus reduces the perception of creamy sweetness in favor of crisp dryness.

If none of that works, add an unfermentable sweetener like lactose. I haven't tried a "milk IPA" yet but who knows?! Cheers!

 

[WitShadow]

Oh look, I had already provided an answer in June. Silly me! The notification popped up and only showed the initial question, but glad to hear you found the sweet spot! ;-)

 

[stickyfinger]

Oh look, I had already provided an answer in June. Silly me! The notification popped up and only showed the initial question, but glad to hear you found the sweet spot! ;-)

yeah, good advice.

 

[stickyfinger]

I find you get ample sweetness with a little blend of caramel and munich malts - go lighter or darker based on your own goals and preferences, and Vienna works too. Frankly, if you're finding enough sweetness in the IPA's you buy but not your own, then this should be enough as most recipes stick to this route. Remember that the base of a great IPA is all about the balance between bitter hops and sweet malt, and most brewers can do it with just these basics.



If you want to take it a step further than most American IPAs, try Maris Otter for your base malt instead of US or German pale ale malts. However, if you find your beers to be too dry, do not go across the pond for your yeast - be sure to stick with the US ale yeasts, not English or Irish ones. You can also mash at higher temps for a fuller body which adds to the perception of sweetness, if not actual sweetness, and do not add any sugar to your boil, which (possibly counterintuitively) lightens the body and thus reduces the perception of creamy sweetness in favor of crisp dryness.



If none of that works, add an unfermentable sweetener like lactose. I haven't tried a "milk IPA" yet but who knows?! Cheers!

i think the english yeasts can work great in american ipa. i like wlp002 especially

 

[Roland_deschain]

I find you get ample sweetness with a little blend of caramel and munich malts - go lighter or darker based on your own goals and preferences, and Vienna works too. Frankly, if you're finding enough sweetness in the IPA's you buy but not your own, then this should be enough as most recipes stick to this route. Remember that the base of a great IPA is all about the balance between bitter hops and sweet malt, and most brewers can do it with just these basics.

If you want to take it a step further than most American IPAs, try Maris Otter for your base malt instead of US or German pale ale malts. However, if you find your beers to be too dry, do not go across the pond for your yeast - be sure to stick with the US ale yeasts, not English or Irish ones. You can also mash at higher temps for a fuller body which adds to the perception of sweetness, if not actual sweetness, and do not add any sugar to your boil, which (possibly counterintuitively) lightens the body and thus reduces the perception of creamy sweetness in favor of crisp dryness.

If none of that works, add an unfermentable sweetener like lactose. I haven't tried a "milk IPA" yet but who knows?! Cheers!

I’ve been doing a version of a Mango Milkshake IPA for a while now. Lactose in an IPA makes no sense on paper but the finished product is quite tasty.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

try Maris Otter for your base malt instead of US or German pale ale malts. However, if you find your beers to be too dry, do not go across the pond for your yeast - be sure to stick with the US ale yeasts, not English or Irish ones.

If you want a sweet Otter, get Fawcetts and avoid Crisp. Otter may have a bit too much character for the OP, but personally I think you need a bit of character from the malt to balance a well-hopped beer. And complexity is always good.

Yeast - huh? Attenuation is (loosely) tied up with flocculation, and if you're producing cask beer then you need a good floccer. That's why trad cask bitter usually has a sweet finish to it (along with the crystal). Strains like 1968 and 1469 flocc well (particularly the former!) and have official attenuations of 67-71% - hardly high.

You're thinking of Burton strains which needed high attenuation to avoid secondary fermentation when exported. But in many ways they are not "typical" of "English" yeasts.

 

[2005732]

I was looking for an alternative to crystal malt in my IPAs, so I tried 1lb of honey as an experiment in a 5g batch. I honestly couldn't tell the difference between that and c10. I won't use it for that purpose again, but there was nothing wrong with it, i just couldn't discern a difference.