Malt extract vs. full grain - which do you choose and why?

[biochemedic]

I think everyone has nailed it on the head with increased control over all grain vs simplicity (and speed) when using extract. All grain is cheaper (for the ingredients), but there's increased equipment overhead initially.

Like @soccerdad, the main thing with extract for me is that I absolutely love being able to whip out a quick pale ale in an hour or two, so I've come full circle after starting with extract plus specialty grains, then moving to all grain, and then back...for some of my brews...I still bust out the full mash tun and do all grain at times as well, for more complicated brews that I want more control over, or that can't really be replicated with extracts well.

 

[grampamark]

I did extract, then partial mash, for a couple of years. I never made a beer that was truly bad, but none of them were remarkable in any way, either. After awhile, I noticed that everything I brewed, regardless of the style, tasted like malt extract-slightly tangy, slightly metallic, and pretty much all the same.

I switched to AG four years ago and have been happy with my choice. I can take any recipe and tweak it to my taste. It's still a cream ale or an IPA or whatever, but it's mine. That flexibility is, for me, the big advantage of AG. It's possible to freelance, a bit, with extracts, but the infinite range of possibilities with AG brewing makes it my preferred method.

Mark

 

[Calder]

Why do I mash? I partial mash, but it is 8+ lbs per batch. so with the exception of high abv beers, I add very little extract or other sugars.

Why do I mash? I think there are three reasons:

1) It save money. It is far cheaper to mash than to use extract. But it does take extra time, so that then becomes an individual choice.

2) When you steep grains, you leave a lot of the sugars behind. Mashing will increase the yield of sugars from steeped grains by ~ 50%. Maybe only 35% for dark crystals, but for other grains it can be very much more. ...... I guess I'm being a cheapskate again!

3) More variety. you can't steep many grains, such as Munich, Vienna, Biscuit, Victory, Smoked Malts, etc, and many others. You may get some flavors from them, but for each lb of grain you steep, you are leaving behind the equivalent of 0.7 lbs of DME in potential sugars. You already paid for the grain, why not maximize the sugars from the grain. I also suspect that you get more depth from mashing than steeping; I think mashing 0.5 lbs of Biscuit gives more flavor complexity than steeping the same grain.

Summary: I want to maximize the benefit of the grains I use.

 

[cmac62]

My lhbs owner taught me to brew. He taught me all grain, I didn't know enough to think that was weird. So I started ag. I've since used some ME to boost the abv a few times. Even with a 10 g cooler Mt I have made some big ass beers. My EBW was 26 lbs of grain and the mash was really thick but turned out in the 12% area. I feel like a lot of the others about the process, it is somewhat zen for me. When I brew I plan my whole day. Of course I sometimes brew three in a day. Brewing is a great Hobbie, there is room for everyone. If you want to control everything (me, not so much) or turn out some tasty beers in a few hours a month, both are valid options. I say brew on!!

 

[Horseflesh]

My extract beers were mediocre despite paying attention to details like fermentation temperature. A coworker brought over some AG homebrew when I had a party and it was revelatory: I finally experienced truly good homebrew. I immediately went AG and never looked back. I started with Igloos as many do and later upgraded to a fancy E-BIAB rig.

I am sure you can make good extract brews but I am very happy brewing AG, and having available pretty much every ingredient a commercial brewer might use.

I really like cooking and brewing scratches the same itch.

 

[yourlastchance89]

The pros of extract are if you're starting out, there's less variables involved. This means more dedication to focusing on the fewer yet still very critical steps involved like sanitation, fermentation control, the boiling process, etc. Then there is less equipment, when I did extract I used a 10 gallon kettle inside on a stovetop(biab is only a burner and a mesh bag away which is what I do now). Finally with extract I made good and consistently good beers. With all-grain I've made really good beers(just got my first medal 3 months ago), and I've made meh beer that's definitely drinkable but it's nothing to brag about. Ton of other factors I try to account for now, water chemistry, pH, grain crush, my mashing strategy, etc. My most struggling beers have been the ones I tried converting from extract to all-grain

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I started brewing back in the early 90's because I liked craft/import beer and the options were limited and expensive. I started with extract kits, then moved to following existing recipes and adding steeping grains like crystal. Then I had kids and stopped brewing...for a long time.

I just got back into it last spring and I went straight to all grain. I used to think all grain was some super difficult process that required some sort of black magic to ensure the correct mash temp and the whole fly sparge etc. Then I started reading here and learned about tools that help calculate all the things you really needed, most importantly the strike to mash temp relationship. Throw in the simplicity of batch sparging and all grain really isn't hard at all. I'm amazed that I ever saw it as a daunting process.

I spent months reading, asking questions and building up my equipment. I wanted to make sure I addressed the heavy hitters with respect to what really affects the quality of a home brew. To that end, I started off managing my water and pH, using a yeast starter and coming up with a plan to have accurate fermentation temp control.

My first all grain batch was excellent (better than most craft beers I can buy from the massive selection at the store) and they've gotten even better. What keeps me going is that beers as tasty as what I'm brewing are either unavailable or really expensive. Toppling Goliath makes some tasty NEIPAs and stouts, but the NEIPAs are $5 a glass and the stouts are major unobtainium. I can brew a NEIPA for about less than $1 a glass and I love it. I can brew a (pseudo) barrel aged RIS for not much more.

My advice to anyone is to start with extract, but buy a kettle big enough for full boils. Move on to all grain if you want. Use that time to learn about sanitation, yeast starters and management, and fermentation. Once you have those mastered, you can either go to BIAB or any other all grain process that strikes your fancy.

 

[STMF]

I have gone back to Extract-with-steeping-grains (full boil) from All-Grain. The main reasons is the time spent + I dont have to mess with the grains before or after the mash. I don't feel my beer is any worse than when I did All-Grain.

I find it strange that with all the steps (probably over 20) that is involved in making beer, some people seem to think that if you don't put grains in water for an hour, you somehow "cheat". Some compare it to heating a canned soup or similar wich I find ridiculess.

There are people that cheat in one or a few of the following steps for example;

They buy factory malted barley instead of malting themselfs
They buy factory crystal and roasted malt instead of roasting themselfs
They buy factory dried (and sometimes ground up pressed) hops instead of fresh
They buy factory grown up yeast (or even dried) instead of growing up themselfs
They use tap water instead of building up destilled water from scratch
etc...

None of the above is claimed to be a "Must do to claim to brew beer" but somehow the mash step is required.

Today there is a lot of variety in malt extract and most of them are very high in quality.

Make beer in whatever way you chose and that suits you!

 

[Kent88]

I started off as an extract brewer, then started using kits with steeping grains. Now I call myself a partial-extract brewer. I always try to have my mash tun full (or close to it) and make up the difference with extract. I really like munich malt heavy beers and there isn't much available for munich DME (I do have some from morebeer I am going to try in an upcoming batch).

 

[yourlastchance89]

I have gone back to Extract-with-steeping-grains (full boil) from All-Grain. The main reasons is the time spent + I dont have to mess with the grains before or after the mash. I don't feel my beer is any worse than when I did All-Grain.

I find it strange that with all the steps (probably over 20) that is involved in making beer, some people seem to think that if you don't put grains in water for an hour, you somehow "cheat". Some compare it to heating a canned soup or similar wich I find ridiculess.

There are people that cheat in one or a few of the following steps for example;

They buy factory malted barley instead of malting themselfs
They buy factory crystal and roasted malt instead of roasting themselfs
They buy factory dried (and sometimes ground up pressed) hops instead of fresh
They buy factory grown up yeast (or even dried) instead of growing up themselfs
They use tap water instead of building up destilled water from scratch
etc...

None of the above is claimed to be a "Must do to claim to brew beer" but somehow the mash step is required.

Today there is a lot of variety in malt extract and most of them are very high in quality.

Make beer in whatever way you chose and that suits you!

There was a rather popular thread on here regarding this some time back. Something to the tune of extract brewing is "fake" brewing which is total nonsense. Someone made a good point on the thread that the "fake" brewing argument was a totally arbitrary line. Who says using grain is even more "real"? Did you grow and malt your own grains? What about your hops? Did you catch and populate your yeast off a wild strain? How about your kettle? Did you mine and smelt your own metal and forge it yourself utilizing Biblical era tools? The boundary for brewing is what you make it. Just do you and be happy with it. People have reasons for extract, people have reasons for all-grain, in the end it's still homebrew.

 

[toddo97]

I've done 6-8 brews so far so I'm definitely still in the shallow end of the pool. I've done mostly extract kits w/ steeping grains, but by far the most satisfying brew was the partial mash I did earlier this week (despite the spilling of far too much wort/sparge water on the stove and burning my hands trying to drain/squeeze the grain bag!). I totally get the feeling like you're really brewing when doing it that was which I'm sure is even more pronounced doing all grain. One other aspect for me was when I did an extract brew, but followed a recipe so rather than just open up a box and mix a cake, I had to (got to) buy each of the ingredients and deciding whether or not to use the recipe hops, for example, or choose another based on my tastes.

As an aside, if I do go AG, it will either be BIAB or get something like the Grainfather. If you go with something like a GF, do you lose some of that control feeling associated with AG or is there still enough tweaking and personalization that it's still there?

 

[kevin58]

When people say all grain gives you more control or flexibility part of what they mean has to do with mash temperatures.
Malt extract has already been mashed and then processed into an extract form. Who knows at what temperatures and how long those original grains were mashed?

When you mash at the low end of what is considered a standard infusion mash which is about 148°, you convert more starch into sugar than when you mash at the upper end of about 158°ish.

Converting more starch to sugar means more fermentables which gives you a higher OG (and possibly a higher alcohol content dependent on how well your yeast do their job).

Having less fermentables however also means less body to your beers mouth feel. They call this a dry characteristic. Highly desirable in some beers but not all. If you want a fuller body in your beer you would mash at higher temperatures.

Now you would assume when buying a kit that the extract makers would mash at a temperature suitable for the style marked on the package... buy how do you really know? By selecting your own grains... milling them (or having them milled) and then mashing yourself, you can mash at any temperature range you choose. Want a medium bodied beer? Mash in between the upper and lower limits. Want a light to medium body? No problem. You control the outcome rather than trusting someone at Munton's to have done it the way you want it.

 

[brewcat]

I started brewing extract with steeping grains. I went all-grain because I outgrew what I could do with recipes (e.g. using grains that need converted). When I converted my old extract recipes to all-grain, I didn't notice a difference in taste.

My comparison would be stock for a soup. You can use store or homemade. Stock gives soup a base like extract/mash gives beer a base. You still add other ingredients, plus control other variables (e.g. fermentation).

If you plan on going all-grain, remember you aren't out anything if you do a few extract kits first. Just buy a bigger kettle.

 

[seatazzz]

There was a rather popular thread on here regarding this some time back. Something to the tune of extract brewing is "fake" brewing which is total nonsense. Someone made a good point on the thread that the "fake" brewing argument was a totally arbitrary line. Who says using grain is even more "real"? Did you grow and malt your own grains? What about your hops? Did you catch and populate your yeast off a wild strain? How about your kettle? Did you mine and smelt your own metal and forge it yourself utilizing Biblical era tools? The boundary for brewing is what you make it. Just do you and be happy with it. People have reasons for extract, people have reasons for all-grain, in the end it's still homebrew.




And that hits it on the head. It all comes down to personal choice. I have a co-worker who only does partial mash; I'm trying to get him to join me in an all-grain day, but he's happy where he's at. I've been lucky with my equipment (mostly hand-me-downs from a friend who went pro several years ago) and if I hadn't, I'd still be brewing on my kitchen stove. The vast majority of us here aren't trying to break into the professional craft-brew world, we just want to brew great beer for home consumption (and impressing our non-brewing friends, and maybe luring them into our obsession).

 

[mongoose33]

...we just want to brew great beer for home consumption (and impressing our non-brewing friends, and maybe luring them into our obsession).

Seatazzz = gateway drug into brewing.

 

[chris000]

If one just gets started trying out extracts for some time to figure out if you are going to stick with homebrewing, is a good idea in general. Equipment aside, it takes a few variables out and one can take time to understand/control fermentation first!

A perfect wort poorly fermented will not be drinkable, any extract brew properly fermented will give a good beer.

There are some obvious advantages beyond that, mainly time saving if compared to 2/3 vessel all grain brewing. I know of a very small commercial brewer who uses extract/steeping grains despite having everything he'd need for a traditional brew: customers don't notice, I bet most of his batches are less than 1 bbl (ingredient savings are not overwhelming), but most important to him, he gets to leave on time...

Everyone has their reasons for brewing:
I hate to say, but my first batches homebrew (both beer and wine) were on super-cheap. My motivation was to avoid paying horrendous taxes on beer and wine (after moving to Canada). Despite knowing much better, I was taking every shortcut I could think of for quite some time - just to showcase for how little (time & money) one can make a beer themselves.
Over time, I reverted back to doing things properly and the focus shifted from getting something okay for as little as possible to getting exactly what I want (and still paying less than through the liquor control board, by the way).
Since then, the only time I might touch an extract is to grow up some yeast culture. My investment in equipment has since significantly increased (at least for beer), but that had more to do with scale-up than technique.
All that's needed to make the initial switch is a bag.

 

[WFox93]

This thread is huge and I've enjoyed reading a lot of the posts. For me I prefer all grain, I actually just finished my second all grain batch last weekend. I started with Mr. Beer extracts then moved on to their partial mashes with steeped specialty grains. My friends enjoyed it and loved "my beer" but to me it didn't feel like mine. Like when I buy the caramel turtle brownie mix at the store and add melted peanut butter to it. Sure I had a hand in the recipe and tweaked it but its not truly my recipe. I moved on to all grail after 4 extract batches and the process is much more enjoyable. I've got a notepad on my phone so if I get an idea for a beer in conversation I can jot it down. I spend weeks building multiple recipes at a time, just to change them on brew day because it didn't feel right. That's an option you don't get with extracts or partial mashes.

Like others on here have mentioned there is a zen like process when I'm in my kitchen jamming away. prepping boil components while waiting for the mash to finish. Tasting at each stage in the process down to munching on a few of the grains while doughing them into the tun. My girlfriend had the pleasure of witnessing this last weekend and actually commented on how happy I looked while I was brewing.

To me, there is a certain magic that's lost when I don't play a part in the whole process. Much in the same way I build my own computers, work on my own cars and cook my own meals. I just really enjoy calling what comes out of the fermeter mine.

 

[STMF]

To me, there is a certain magic that's lost when I don't play a part in the whole process.

But you didnt. There are alot of steps that where done in a factory by someone else. The only thing you did extra compared to extract brewing was to put some grain in water for an hour.

 

[mongoose33]

To me, there is a certain magic that's lost when I don't play a part in the whole process.

But you didnt. There are alot of steps that where done in a factory by someone else. The only thing you did extra compared to extract brewing was to put some grain in water for an hour.

But he did. You define "the whole process" the way you want, and he can define it the way he wants.

To me--and I'm sure to WFox93--the whole process is the entire process I'm doing. Having someone else doing a crucial part of that process--producing the wort, for example--robs me of the joy of creating the magic in the mash. I am responsible for how that turns out, not a malt company which has made all the decisions in producing extract as to how that wort turns out.

And make no mistake--I am responsible for that. Without me, there is no crushed grain, no establishment of strike temp high or low, no amendment of the strike water, no doughing in, no stirring, no anything. The enzymatic activity that converts starch to sugar, in the exact manner in which I'm encouraging it to happen, doesn't happen without me.

If you get the Zen, the magic, out of doing an extract brew, more power to you. I didn't. But, I'd never be one to rob you of the joy of brewing your way. Let's offer everyone else, in whatever manner they choose to brew, the same consideration.

 

[chris000]

....
commented on how happy I looked while I was brewing.
....

and that is the part that really matters! I got a similar comment last summer and it kind of hit a nerve back then.
As I mentioned, my reasons for brewing changed over the years and I much prefer the satisfaction I get out of a more elaborate process

 

[Sematary]

This thread is huge and I've enjoyed reading a lot of the posts. For me I prefer all grain, I actually just finished my second all grain batch last weekend. I started with Mr. Beer extracts then moved on to their partial mashes with steeped specialty grains. My friends enjoyed it and loved "my beer" but to me it didn't feel like mine. Like when I buy the caramel turtle brownie mix at the store and add melted peanut butter to it. Sure I had a hand in the recipe and tweaked it but its not truly my recipe. I moved on to all grail after 4 extract batches and the process is much more enjoyable. I've got a notepad on my phone so if I get an idea for a beer in conversation I can jot it down. I spend weeks building multiple recipes at a time, just to change them on brew day because it didn't feel right. That's an option you don't get with extracts or partial mashes.

Like others on here have mentioned there is a zen like process when I'm in my kitchen jamming away. prepping boil components while waiting for the mash to finish. Tasting at each stage in the process down to munching on a few of the grains while doughing them into the tun. My girlfriend had the pleasure of witnessing this last weekend and actually commented on how happy I looked while I was brewing.

To me, there is a certain magic that's lost when I don't play a part in the whole process. Much in the same way I build my own computers, work on my own cars and cook my own meals. I just really enjoy calling what comes out of the fermeter mine.

I'm with you on this point - I want it to be "mine". Well said, sir

 

[OswaldvW]

Last year I made a few extract batches. Both were heavily oxidized and had a noticeable extract twang. I dumped both. There is a guy in my Homebrew club who makes great tasting extract beers. For me to make great tasting beers, they have to be all grain. It pains me to spend so much money on extract only to be disappointed in the end result.

For those of you making great tasting extract beers - keep up the good work. For those with syrupy oxidized extract brews, try a BIAB small batch (3 gallons or so) and see if it s worth the extra time.

 

[Droot]

I have done both. I started with a b eer machine. Then I started reading how beer was made. After A Year I was doing all grain keggels. After 15 years, my living situation changed and I did extract on her front porch. Still 10 gallon batches. Living situation has changed twice more and I am doing all grain again. Extract beers were good.

I also make my own bread, and reload my own ammo.

Dsvid

 

[eric19312]

There is an old saying "brewers make wort, yeast makes beer". It has been quoted in a few home brewing books but I was unable to find an original source. I understand this is usually used in the context of describing just how important yeast is to the production of beer but I've always included another meaning. To me brewing is the process of making wort from malted grain. Sure that is not the whole process. Farmers grow, harvest and separate the grain from the chaff. Maltsters manage the process of turning raw grain into base and specialty malts. Hop farmers grow, harvest and process the hops.

But it is the brewers take that malt and turn it into sweet wort and then boil that sweet wort with hops to make the hopped wort.

Malt extract is not malt. It is malt that another brewer has already converted into wort either sweet or hopped wort. Yes you can make good beer out of malt extract. But to me it is not quite brewing. It is doing part of brewing...but not the magical part.

Yes making beer is magic. The ingredients that go into making beer neither look, smell or taste anything like the final product. The transformation of these ingredients first by the brewer and then by the yeast into beer is now (well?) understood and scientifically explained. But when my mash tun goes from cloudy milky starchy water to clear startlingly sweet wort I still see the magic. And when the yeast (yeast was called Godisgood in the dark ages) converts that sugary wort into that refreshing, satisfying, relaxing beverage we call beer, yep I'm down with calling that miraculous.

So yes I can and have made good beer with extract and agree it is good way to get started on the hobby. I never ever look down on beer or the brewer based on ingredient or process. Let's enjoy the beer and talk! But for me to really enjoy the brew day I need the magic.

 

[WFox93]

To me, there is a certain magic that's lost when I don't play a part in the whole process.

But you didnt. There are alot of steps that where done in a factory by someone else. The only thing you did extra compared to extract brewing was to put some grain in water for an hour.

I also didn't grow my own cows or chickens for food, I didn't mill the bolts for the work on my car, or refine the gasoline I use to enjoy a good drive. I'm not trying to start an argument but rather defend my point and that of many other brewers here. I still do enjoy a quick partial mash extract brew with steeped grains much as I enjoy slightly modifying boxed meals.

That being said, I enjoy the idea of having as much to do with the process as possible, so I'll be growing my own hops. This spring I intend to plant some Mt. Hood (I believe) hops in my backyard and sun dry then freeze store.

 

[ancientmariner52]

A group of cattle is a herd. A group of wolves is a pack. A group of home brewers is an argument. I do love it so.

There has to be a reason why many (most?) home brewers go ag. You'll just have to try it to see if it is for you.

 

[grampamark]

A group of cattle is a herd. A group of wolves is a pack. A group of home brewers people on a message board is an argument. I do love it so.

There has to be a reason why many (most?) home brewers go ag. You'll just have to try it to see if it is for you.

FTFY. It's the nature of message boards, apparently.

Mark

 

[WFox93]

So so true lol. It's only a matter of time on threads like these I suppose. In the car world its "Built not bought" here its "AG vs Extract" oh well. Like you said, Nature of the beast