Make your own NEIPA brewing salts?

[AlexKay]

I've been using calcium carbonate to treat my mash water for years. Why is it so bad?

Well, in general you want to be careful adding carbonates. It’s very easy to get your mash pH too high, which leads to decreased efficiency and increased tannin extraction. Sodium bicarbonate should be used sparingly, and ideally when you have past measurements to go by, or a calculator you really trust. Calcium carbonate is twice the carbonate, but even worse is sparingly soluble. So you don’t get a predictable pH in the mash, and to the extent it gets transferred with your wort, it continues to muck with your pH during fermentation.

At least this is my understanding. Someone else could weigh in.

I’ve damaged a batch or two with CaCO3 (and MgSO4, for that matter), and feel my brewing has only improved now that I’m not trying to match carbonates in water profiles at all.

 

[McMullan]

Well, in general you want to be careful adding carbonates. It’s very easy to get your mash pH too high, which leads to decreased efficiency and increased tannin extraction. Sodium bicarbonate should be used sparingly, and ideally when you have past measurements to go by, or a calculator you really trust. Calcium carbonate is twice the carbonate, but even worse is sparingly soluble. So you don’t get a predictable pH in the mash, and to the extent it gets transferred with your wort, it continues to muck with your pH during fermentation.

At least this is my understanding. Someone else could weigh in.

I’ve damaged a batch or two with CaCO3 (and MgSO4, for that matter), and feel my brewing has only improved now that I’m not trying to match carbonates in water profiles at all.

I've never had any problems using CaCO3. Mash pH is always where expected, but I only add what's recommended by software written by Graham Wheeler. Very small amounts generally. My understanding is that it dissolves more easily in a mash vs water alone. Other software I use (e.g. BeerSmith3) sometimes recommends both CaCO3 and baking soda (NaHCO3), depending on the desired profile.

 

[faithie999]

I've never had any problems using CaCO3. Mash pH is always where expected, but I only add what's recommended by software written by Graham Wheeler. Very small amounts generally. My understanding is that it dissolves more easily in a mash vs water alone. Other software I use (e.g. BeerSmith3) sometimes recommends both CaCO3 and baking soda (NaHCO3), depending on the desired profile.

do you put the entire calculated quantity of CaCO3 (calculated for your total volume of water) into the mash water, or do you calculate the amount of CaCO3 just for the volume of mash water?

 

[McMullan]

do you put the entire calculated quantity of CaCO3 (calculated for your total volume of water) into the mash water, or do you calculate the amount of CaCO3 just for the volume of mash water?

I only treat mash water. The main point, in my mind, of water treatment is to facilitate enzyme reactions in the mash. So post mash water additions - sparge, boil and sometimes FV - are not treated.

 

[AlexKay]

Well, in general you want to be careful adding carbonates. It’s very easy to get your mash pH too high, which leads to decreased efficiency and increased tannin extraction. Sodium bicarbonate should be used sparingly, and ideally when you have past measurements to go by, or a calculator you really trust. Calcium carbonate is twice the carbonate, but even worse is sparingly soluble. So you don’t get a predictable pH in the mash, and to the extent it gets transferred with your wort, it continues to muck with your pH during fermentation.

At least this is my understanding. Someone else could weigh in.

I’ve damaged a batch or two with CaCO3 (and MgSO4, for that matter), and feel my brewing has only improved now that I’m not trying to match carbonates in water profiles at all.

Following this up with this link.

 

[McMullan]

Following this up with this link.

I don't use Bru’n Water. Nor do I use RO water. I use tap water. Nor do I recognise any of the proposed 'issues' with using CaCO3 to treat mash water. I routinely monitor pH from mash to glass and can't not recommend the use of CaCO3.

 

[AlexKay]

I don't use Bru’n Water. Nor do I use RO water. I use tap water. Nor do I recognise any of the proposed 'issues' with using CaCO3 to treat mash water. I routinely monitor pH from mash to glass and can't not recommend the use of CaCO3.

Hey, no problem, it’s your beer. My advice to those just starting to adjust their water is to avoid MgSO4 and CaCO3. I think that will help their beer, and plus, simpler is good.

 

[slayer021175666]

Is there any degradation of the salts to worry about? I will brew it tomorrow but, I'd like to treat the water tonight so it's ready to go in the morning.

 

[McMullan]

Is there any degradation of the salts to worry about? I will brew it tomorrow but, I'd like to treat the water tonight so it's ready to go in the morning.

Calcium chloride reacts with moisture, including air moisture, so it needs to be stored in a sealed bag or container. It's good practice to store brewing salts in a labeled sealable containers. I use recycled plastic food-grade tubs.

 

[slayer021175666]

McMullan,
I meant as far as treating the water tonight and letting the treated water sit until morning. I already treated it though, just now. I don't see why any of that stuff would break down or degrade in the water overnight but, I just thought I'd ask.

 

[McMullan]

Sorry, I only read the first part. Didn’t realise you were treating water today. It‘a fine to add salts the night before. I add mine with the grain at mash in.

 

[cire]

McMullan,
I meant as far as treating the water tonight and letting the treated water sit until morning. I already treated it though, just now. I don't see why any of that stuff would break down or degrade in the water overnight but, I just thought I'd ask.

If your procedure is to treat the liquor rather than adding salts to the grist, then treating it the day before is the better option, giveing time for the salts to fully dissolve and potentially disassociate.

 

[bwible]

Calcium carbonate is bad. Bad, bad calcium carbonate. Never add it. Bad.

It’s the only way I can raise my calcium further after I’ve added Gypsum and/or Calcium Chloride.

I had my water analysis done by Ward Labs. My water is fairly high in sodium, which I want to reduce. And about 15 times higher in chloride than sulfate. So I’ve been diluting my water pretty much 4 parts distilled water to 1 part tap water to get everything down to good starting levels.

I use EZ Water calculator (or some similar name) its a spreadsheet program. I brew 3 gallon batches.

I usually end up adding a small amount of epsom salt for the magnesium to get to a min number there. Then some combination of gypsum and calcium chloride to get those numbers in the balance I want for the kind of beer. Higher sulfate to chloride for hoppy beers and pale ales. Higher chloride to sulfate for lagers, blonde ales, and malty beers. After I’ve made those adjustments, my calcium is still usually low. I add CaCo3 to raise calcium.

From there, I add acid malt to the mash to get to the right ph level.

My beers have been way better since I’ve been doing this - especially pale ales and hoppy beers.

 

[AlexKay]

It’s the only way I can raise my calcium further after I’ve added Gypsum and/or Calcium Chloride.

How high do you want your calcium to go? I usually aim for 50 ppm, but haven't seen any ill effects the times it's dipped down to 20 or so. I can almost always get to 50 with CaSO4 and CaCl2 alone, without overshooting my chloride and sulfate. Then again, I'm starting from RO (my water is too hard to use, even with dilution), so YMMV. Pilsners end up with low-calcium (low-everything) water; just no way around that.

 

[IslandLizard]

Calcium chloride reacts with moisture, including air moisture, so it needs to be stored in a sealed bag or container. It's good practice to store brewing salts in a labeled sealable containers. I use recycled plastic food-grade tubs.

I use PET peanut butter jars with screw lids. I smooth out the rim and put a 2 times folded over square of plastic wrap (4 layers total) over the jar's opening and threads, to create a better seal, then screw on the lid, tight. The plastic wrap gets replaced when it's worn out.

 

[bwible]

How high do you want your calcium to go? I usually aim for 50 ppm, but haven't seen any ill effects the times it's dipped down to 20 or so. I can almost always get to 50 with CaSO4 and CaCl2 alone, without overshooting my chloride and sulfate. Then again, I'm starting from RO (my water is too hard to use, even with dilution), so YMMV. Pilsners end up with low-calcium (low-everything) water; just no way around that.

I usually go for about 100

 

[couchsending]

You can buy Epsom salts, CaCl, Salt, baking soda, at most grocery stores. The only thing you can’t at a grocery store is Gypsum. Buy it in bulk, pound at a time.

CaCo3 nor any bicarbonate should ever be added to any pale beer. There’s zero reason for it.

The more bicarbonate you have in your water the less Ca actually makes it into the final beer due to reactions that precipitate it out.

If you’re not adding your Ca salts to the kettle then you’re losing as much as 50% of your Ca in the mash. It’s pointless to add salts to your sparge water. Just adjust it for pH and that’s it.

Add salts to strike water for mash.

For pale beer adjust sparge water with acid to 5.4ish pH but don’t add salts. If you’re using RO water there’s no reason to adjust with acid but a tiny amount of Ca salts added to RO sparge will prevent a slight spike in pH at the end of sparge and the potential for tannin extraction.

Add the Ca salts (not CaCo3) to the kettle that the programs tell you to add to the sparge water. That way the Ca actually wakes it into the fermenter and is accessible to the yeast.

Then there’s pH which is just as important, if not more, to understand.

 

[IslandLizard]

Is this a good way to get started or, still a rip off? Says 2 oz, of each. That would be 58 grams each, I think. [...]
https://www.amazon.com/TAPCRAFT-Bre...I,B07KQPQ7CZ,B08MF7795Y,0062820184,B01N4WCWOK

It's a bit of a rip-off, IMO, but not too bad, and it gets you started. The packaging adds to the overall cost as does shipping. No, shipping is not free, it never is.

Many Local HomeBrew Stores (LHBS) sell individual brewing salts in 2 oz jars (~$2-3 each) and 1 pound sealed plastic bags (~$3-6). AlphaChemicals sells them too, 1 pound being the smallest size, and $7 shipping for up to 5 pounds or so.

• Calcium Sulfate = Gypsum (CaSO4)
• Calcium Carbonate = (real) Chalk (CaCO3)
• Calcium Chloride = Quick Joe de-icing pellets (CaCl2) or a flaked version of it. Keep it well sealed glass jelly or mason jar with its own tight fitting lid.
• Sodium Bicarbonate = Baking Soda (NaHCO3) <== A pound box from your local supermarket (89 cents) is fine. Just store it in well sealed glass jar (12 oz jelly jar with lid or mason jar) to prevent picking up odors.
• Magnesium Sulfate = Epsom Salt (Na2SO4) <== Your local drug store (or Dollar Store). 69 cents a pound, or less.
• Citric Acid (for pH adjustments) - See below

It's OK to use Citric Acid as long as you don't use too much of it, so won't taste it. There are alternatives:

• Lactic Acid, usually sold as an 88% solution in a 4 or 5 oz bottle at your LHBS or online. It lasts a long time due to it's high concentration, so it's very frugal.
• Phosphoric Acid - LHBS stuff is only 10% and waaaaay overpriced. Pints or quarts of 85% can be bought from DudaDiesel but shipping and everything makes it pricey. Besides, a quart of that 85% stuff can last you 3 brew lifetimes, or longer.
• Other acids are used, but beyond the scope of this summary.

If you need plain salt (NaCl), Kosher (non-iodized) Salt is fine. But chances are you won't need much or anything in a typical brew.

There's much more information in our Brew Science Forum, stickies and all.

 

[slayer021175666]

Thanks IslandLizard,
Now that gets me into the cheap cheap cheap realm! Excellent!