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LupoMax and HDHC (Dip hopping)

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waitej02

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I purchased some Lupo Max (1/2 lb each Citra, mozaic and Amarillo). I also was interested in trying dip hopping. The concern with dip hopping seems like having the hop in there throughout the fermentation/dry hopping might give some off flavors, but the elupo max concept seems like it would reduce that risk. I normall do a 10 gal batch in a conical with +/- 1 lb in the whirlpool and 1 pound in the dry hop. Should I do 1/2 lb in the dip hop (with 1 gal wort?) then and use 1/2 lb T90s in the normal steep (+/- 160) and do the same 50/50 (1/2 lb Lupomax and 1/2 lb T90) in the dry hop?
 

eric19312

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What is your HDHC strategy now? The brewers I've seen using the term are using a combination of T90, cryo and Incognito. Incognito is not packaged for homebrew as far as I know smallest quantity available is 2kg which is about $500. I am not sure if Incognito can be used in DH, information at Haas and at YVH suggests it is for whirlpool. I'm interested in getting my hands on some though.
 

BeerFst

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Never heard of “dip hopping” until this post, mostly surprised it didn’t come up in the northeast thread yet (maybe it did and I missed it).

anyway, I found two articles on the topic. One from CBB and another from vine pair. The vinepair article discussed both HDHC and dip hopping, so perhaps OP you got confused? They are indeed different things as @eric19312 noted above.HDHC being the use of t90, cryo/lupomax and incognito in a beer to achieve equivalents of 15lbs/gallon without the crazy losses.

in the CBB article it seemed like breweries, specifically Gigantic, were using it in place of a standard whirlpool as they QC reps were concerned with whirlpools less than 180deg. If they had used hops charges as large as they’d have liked it would have generated too much bitterness. Additionally they only use leaf hops so the charge would be likely to cause issues with clogging.

their end goal seems to be a homebrew like whirlpool where we can chill down rapidly and don’t have to deal with QC demanding whirlpool temps over a certain level.

that said, incognito does need heat to dissolve, and whirlpool is the suggested use for this reason. However, you have me wondering if incognito couldn’t be used during dip hopping to introduce it directly to the fermentor without needing to whirlpool it.
I’d also like to get my hands on some but who knows when it will show stateside

edits: forgot articles

 

eric19312

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Sounds like Gigantic is dip hopping to solve a problem that is not relevant to most homebrewers. They don't have a whirlpool. Homebrewers can whirlpool in the kettle just fine.

Going back to OPs question he is planning to do a whirlpool hop stand at 160 and dip hop in the fermentor. I am struggling seeing the point. Perhaps this is idea to do lower temperature hop steep in oxygen free environment?

That might be interesting. What if you put your whirlpool hops in your (ss) fermentor and purged with CO2. Then add hot wort at say 170F to the fermentor, let the hops steep for 30-60 minutes and then chill with glycol to pitching temps. Need to provide some CO2 to the top while you chill. Then once it is chilled you could probably dump the hops and break from the fermentor before pitching yeast and oxygenating.
 
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waitej02

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The way that I understand dip hopping, you use a very concentrated hop charge, so for 1 lb of whirlpool hops, it would only call for +/- 1.5 gal of wort at 160. I was planning to split the whirlpool/dip hop and only use the 8 oz of LupoMax in the fermenter, which should be equivalent to about 12 oz. of T90, as they are concentrated (YV says to use 70% of LupoMax vs T90), so you only need <1 gal of wort. You shouldn't need to cool the fermenter, as the other 10+ gals remaining in the boil kettle will be cooled after steep, so the warm 1 gal in the fermenter shouldn't raise the temp too much. Someone asked why split, and I just thought that it would be a good way, since they recommend to use T90 in conjunction with LupoMax. I have had good success doing using cryo/T90 in combo and since I got the LupoMax and it is a similar concept (more resin/less vegetative mass). The dip hop stay in the fermenter throughout dry hopping, etc.

The Gigantic process is straightforward: load the late-hop addition into the empty fermentation vessel, purge the tank with CO2, then add some hot liquor at your target extraction temperature to create a concentrated hop tea in the tank. Hopping rates are similar to whirlpool additions—0.75 to 1 lb (340 to 454 g) per barrel—and a half barrel of hot liquor is used for each 11 lb (5 kg) of hops. Target temperatures are 150–170°F (66–77°C), and the hops steep for about an hour before the brewers pump cooled wort into the tank and pitch the yeast.
 
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waitej02

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By the way, what is OP?

And, while Gigantic uses a hop back and not a whirlpool vessel, they say that the dip hop method extracts more aroma and flavor vs. whirlpool.

Havig says that between the lower-temperature hop extraction and the effect of active yeast on the hop matter, the aromas and flavors produced are vibrant and complex.
 

BeerFst

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OP is Original post or poster

They are saying that cause they won’t do a whirlpool below 180 for safety reason. I think it’s more of a risk/reward than a real risk of getting someone sick.

they’re somewhat correct that the higher temp the more things evaporate, plus above 180 you’ll isomerize those alphas into ibus, which you’re trying to actively avoid in most neipa.

As a home brewer you could just do a steep or whirlpool at 160 and get the same effect.

there’s nothing wrong with trying it but I think it’s really just a commercial work around they’ve put some marketing into.

there is plenty of matter in suspension for bio trans without needing actual hops in during ferment. The perfectly average neipa thread has long since moved away from a day 3 dry hop, pushing all hops to post ferm, even if two dry hops. This seems to align with several of the bighazy breweries like other half
 
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waitej02

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Thanks. That is helpful. I was confusing the use of T90 with higher density hop products like cryo or LupoMax (also from Hass) with the specific term HDHC using incognito (with T90 and cryo). I do not have incognito, just LupoMax and Cryo (and T90).
 
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