Low OG

[cbird01]

So I just brewed a variation of a Belgian Wit today. Here is the recipe:

1.5 lbs Wheat Malt Steep 150 - 60 min
0.50 Flaked Oats Steep 150 - 60 min

3.0 lbs Briess DME - Gold
1.0 lb Briess DME - Weizen

1.5 oz KG - 60 min
0.5 oz KG - 5 min

0.75oz Corriander - 5 min + 15 steep after FO
0.50oz Chamomile - 5 min + 15 steep after FO

Zest of 4 Oranges + 1 Lime - 15 min steep after FO
Wyeast 1056 American Ale

So my problem is ProMash says OG 1.048 and I ended up with 1.036. I have only done specialty grain steeps before. My LBHS failed to mention that I should sparge at 170 to rinse the grains of sugars. Of course I found this out when I called them after the yeast was pitched.

Everything else went great and I think its going to taste great, but I am upset about what the ABV could turn out to be...i mean I may be giving Bud Light a run for its money!

Is there any way to add more DME or something to up the ABV after the Yeast is already pitched?

What do you think my FG would be on this?

Craig
Flagstaff, AZ

 

[McKBrew]

I'm going to take a stab and say that you probably didn't get the maximum value out of the wheat malt because it's meant to be mashed instead of steeped. Don't know where you will finish at for sure, but if you finish in the 1.010 range you should have a beer that is right around 3.5%. Maybe not what you were looking for but definately a good summer beer.

Yes you could boil, cool and add some more DME or just leave it alone and enjoy it the way it is.

 

[Brett0424]

Yeah with 1056 you should finish at about the 1.009-1.010 range with that OG. 1.048 is a little bit of a high estimate to begin with too. It looks like maybe you had your mash efficiency at 100%. That would give you 1.048. I say leave it like it is but, yes, you could boil and add more dme to it.

 

[cbird01]

I'm going to take a stab and say that you probably didn't get the maximum value out of the wheat malt because it's meant to be mashed instead of steeped. Don't know where you will finish at for sure, but if you finish in the 1.010 range you should have a beer that is right around 3.5%. Maybe not what you were looking for but definately a good summer beer.

Yes you could boil, cool and add some more DME or just leave it alone and enjoy it the way it is.

Yes, I will probably leave it the way it is...just have to do a shot during my session

The problem came about because I was supposed to use flaked wheat (which I believe can be steeped?) At the last minute, he discovered they were all out and suggested I just switch to Wheat Malt, failing to tell me I needed to mash it.

So an aside question....if I made this again....how would the recipe be affected taste and alcohol wise by mashing 1.5 lbs of Wheat Malt vs. steeping 1.5 lbs of Flaked Wheat?

Thanks...

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

1.5 lbs Wheat Malt Steep 150 - 60 min
0.50 Flaked Oats Steep 150 - 60 min

If you did this, you pretty much did mash it, you just didn't sparge.

 

[TheJadedDog]

If you did this, you pretty much did mash it, you just didn't sparge.

Not at those temps you didn't. I'm sure the low OG is a result of not mashing.

Just as an FYI, I often get variation between what promash says I should have for an OG and what I actually get. This is mainly due to the results in Promash (or other brewing software) being based on formulas rather than what is actually happening in your kitchen.

 

[cbird01]

So if I make this again...what would I do to mash the Wheat Malt....and would that be any better than just using 1.5 lbs of Flaked Wheat?

Craig

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

Not at those temps you didn't. I'm sure the low OG is a result of not mashing.

My understanding is that anywhere from 148-160 is sufficient for mashing. The greater concern would be the lack of a base malt to provide enzymes.

 

[TheJadedDog]

So if I make this again...what would I do to mash the Wheat Malt....and would that be any better than just using 1.5 lbs of Flaked Wheat?

Craig

You would let it soak in 155 degree (or so) water with a base malt, then sparge. Check out the wiki to get more detailed information on mashing and what is involved.

If you are an extract brewer I would recommend sticking with the Flaked Wheat and just steeping it since you are just trying to get the flavor and your fermentables are coming from the extract. If you want to try a partial mash or going all-grain, the I'd recommend trying a mash next time.

@The Blow Leprechaun -
You are correct, I misspoke.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

@The Blow Leprechaun -
You are correct, I misspoke.

Technically, I think we were both wrong because I totally glazed out on the lack of base malt!

 

[cbird01]

You would let it soak in 155 degree (or so) water with a base malt, then sparge. Check out the wiki to get more detailed information on mashing and what is involved.

From what I understand, isn't Wheat Malt a Base Malt?

I am really interested in doing this recipe as a partial mash. Could you guys look at my original recipe and make some suggestions to what would make this recipe a great partial mash/extract recipe? I would like to end up with around 5.5% alcohol and stick to about 50% Pale, 40% Wheat, and 10% oat.

I found a good article on BYO outlining a PM procedure: http://byo.com/feature/986.html

Boil 1.25 Quarts water per pound of grain - let cool to 160-170
Transfer to Dutch Oven and add grains slowly
Put into warm oven set around 140-160 for 30-45 minutes
While waiting, boil 1.5 qts/lb of grain and let cool to 140-170
Pull your grains out and put in colander over brew pot draining goodness
Pour the hot water over the grains, and your done...commence with boil

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

From what I understand, isn't Wheat Malt a Base Malt?

I think that's a "kinda-sorta" question. It has enzymes, but not enough I don't think. Every wheat recipe I've ever seen uses roughly 50% wheat/base malt.

If you look here: http://www.beersmith.com/Grains/Grains/GrainList.htm, you can only use up to 40-60% wheat malt as your base, otherwise you don't have enough enzymes.

 

[TheJadedDog]

How much grain do you want to mash for a PM? Let me know and I'll see what I can put together for you.

 

[cbird01]

How much grain do you want to mash for a PM? Let me know and I'll see what I can put together for you.

Hmm..I guess I really don't know since I have never done it before. I guess I would want to keep it manageable so I can fit it in my 6 qt dutch oven. Maybe 2.5 lbs including the oats. Open to opinions....

 

[cbird01]

I guess this brings in another interesting point. It seems I have read that Belgian Wits typically use Unmalted Wheat....so am I going in the wrong direction here and what direction am I going with mashing malted wheat?

Maybe I still want to use 10% unmalted flaked wheat to get a stable haze....but still do the partial mash of the malted wheat in place of the wheat DME?

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

I believe you can always add flour to the boil to create haze if you're worried about it, but I've not done this myself so I can't vouch for it.

You can't mash a whole lot in a 6 qt pot, I don't think I'd try and do more than one pound in it.

But, there's lots of other easy ways to mash. If you ferment with buckets, one easy one that I've heard is to use the bucket and just wrap it in a comforter or blanket to help retain the heat. Again, I've not actually done this myself, but people say it works.

Sparging is really a lot simpler than people make it seem, or at least, it can be. For maximum ease, I'd mash the grains in a bucket, pour them through a fine mesh strainer into another bucket, dump some more hot water back into the original bucket still with the grains, stir, let sit again for ten minutes or so, then pour this new water into the catching bucket. It's not going to get you killer efficiency, but it'll work and it'll be easy. And if you already ferment in buckets + have a bottling bucket, you don't need any extra equipment.

 

[TheJadedDog]

The real constraint when doing PM or AG is the amount of water your mashing vessel can hold. There easiest way to do a small PM is to mash your grains in your kettle, then remove them and sparge (which just means rinse) through a strainer. It's similar to steeping, only know you are going to pay close attention to the amount of water, the temp of the water, the length of time for the mash, and sparging. Since this is a PM efficiency is not as critical since you will still get the bulk of your fermentables from the extract. There's not much space in a 6qt vessel (something tells me this might be a typo and you mean 16qt?), as Leprechaun said, you're probably only going to mash about a pound of grain at the most.

As for the wheat in a Belgian Wit, I'm not really an expert on Belgians so I couldn't say. Try starting a post in the recipes thread to see what folks recommend. Feel free to send me a PM for any help on tweaking things for a partial mash (ie. amount of grain to mash, water volumes, and temps).

 

[cbird01]

The real constraint when doing PM or AG is the amount of water your mashing vessel can hold. There easiest way to do a small PM is to mash your grains in your kettle, then remove them and sparge (which just means rinse) through a strainer. It's similar to steeping, only know you are going to pay close attention to the amount of water, the temp of the water, the length of time for the mash, and sparging.

THanks for the help. I actually do have a 6 qt dutch oven...just for cooking. The article I found said dutch oven, so with its size I will have to nix that. I was a stickler for Temp even when I was steeping. With a digital thermometer that can be run under the pot lid and monitored constantly, I was able to keep the temp between 149 and 155 for 60 minutes. I don't see why I couldn't do it in my pot with these conditions for a PM.

 

[The Blow Leprechaun]

A good trick for mashing in your kettle is figuring out how low your oven temp can go. If I put my oven on the very lowest "warm" setting, it holds at 150 degrees, which is pretty much perfect for what I want.

You can then use some brewing software to calculate what temperature your strike water (the water you pour into the dry grains) should be when you add it, pop the lid on the pot, and stick the pot in the oven. It should hold temperature pretty much solid for an hour.