Looks like suck back in the airlock???

[finished1]

I brewed an APA 2 days ago. Immediately the next day I noticed the santizer level was down in the airlock. I thought it was faulty airlock and switch it out with another with new sanitizer. This morning it happened again. I am leaving it alone as of now. I have not noticed any active bubbling in the airlock but do notice the bubbles like in the picture. What is brewing is a Cascade APA. It was chilled down to 75 when cooled and pitched the yeast. The room temperature started at 70 degrees but recently dropped to 68. I have included a picture. Does anyone know what is going on? I do not want any sanitizer going into the brew. Which I think has already started. What should I do next?

 

[yourlastchance89]

I've had fermentation blow some sanitizer out of the airlock before

 

[seatazzz]

You shouldn't be getting ANY suckback this early in fermentation. The only thing I can think of that would cause it would be extreme temperature fluctuations, but it sounds like you have that in check. Did you move the fermenter at all? Take a sample from the spigot without removing the airlock? That would do it as well.

 

[finished1]

You shouldn't be getting ANY suckback this early in fermentation. The only thing I can think of that would cause it would be extreme temperature fluctuations, but it sounds like you have that in check. Did you move the fermenter at all? Take a sample from the spigot without removing the airlock? That would do it as well.

No sample was taken. There was some movement when changing the airlocks but not much if any. I have sanitizer in the airlock and am hoping it will not ruin the beer if a little is drawn in.

 

[finished1]

I've had fermentation blow some sanitizer out of the airlock before

It's not blowing it out I do not believe. If you notice the picture you will see the water level is way below the fill line. It's the second time it has been that low. I replace the first airlock because I though there was a leak.

 

[ba-brewer]

Until you have very active fermentation cooling of air in the head space can cause suck back. Once fermentation is very active there is usually enough CO2 coming out of solution to prevent suck back. Once things slow down toward the end of fermentation it can happen again if you cooling swings.

Did you peek down into the fermentor when you changed the airlock, did you see a krausen formed or forming?

In general two days should be enough time to get to a very active fermentation, if you do not see a krausen might think about pitching more yeast.

If you see a krausen then you may have a leaky seal on your bucket. I have lost a seal on a bucket before. I remove the lid and get the sealing area wet with starsan and reinstall and that helps get it airtight again.

 

[finished1]

Until you have very active fermentation cooling of air in the head space can cause suck back. Once fermentation is very active there is usually enough CO2 coming out of solution to prevent suck back. Once things slow down toward the end of fermentation it can happen again if you cooling swings.

Did you peek down into the fermentor when you changed the airlock, did you see a krausen formed or forming?

In general two days should be enough time to get to a very active fermentation, if you do not see a krausen might think about pitching more yeast.

If you see a krausen then you may have a leaky seal on your bucket. I have lost a seal on a bucket before. I remove the lid and get the sealing area wet with starsan and reinstall and that helps get it airtight again.

I am not sure if there was krausen when I changed the seal. It was first thing in the morning when I changed the seal. There may have been. I did not think about the yeast amount I pitched. I did not let the liquid yeast expand all the way. I forgot to break the activator in the yeast bag until about 30 minutes before I pitched it. I was thinking that since it is a 6 gallon batch it would take longer for the yeast to start working. I will wait one more day because it has not been a complete 48 hours since pitching the yeast. If no activity tomorrow I may pitch another yeast package.

 

[whiskeyjack]

No starter? If no starter it will definitely take longer to show signs of fermentation. Sometimes up to 36 hours or more. Starter is recommended for 5-6 gallon batches. You have no way of telling if your yeast are dead without the pack swelling or a starter. The original suck back is caused by the changes in temp. If you pitch with a higher temp then you will be fermenting at, when the temp does finally drop it creates a negative pressure and causes suck back. Pitching a few degrees cooler then set point temp will fix this. For instance pitching at 65 and letting it rise to 68. One more thing, buckets are known for not sealing the best. Check your lid you may have a leak

 

[seatazzz]

To ease your mind, a tiny bit of sanitizer (an airlock holds less than 1/2 oz) will not affect your beer negatively. +1 to smarter minds than mine above regarding other things. Just wait until you use a blowoff and your fermenter sucks back 1/2 gallon...then you can worry.

 

[finished1]

No starter? If no starter it will definitely take longer to show signs of fermentation. Sometimes up to 36 hours or more. Starter is recommended for 5-6 gallon batches. You have no way of telling if your yeast are dead without the pack swelling or a starter. The original suck back is caused by the changes in temp. If you pitch with a higher temp then you will be fermenting at, when the temp does finally drop it creates a negative pressure and causes suck back. Pitching a few degrees cooler then set point temp will fix this. For instance pitching at 65 and letting it rise to 68. One more thing, buckets are known for not sealing the best. Check your lid you may have a leak

Thanks for the advice. I knew I should have pitched at a lower temp. This is just my second batch. Still learning the ends and outs. I will wait one more day to mess with the lid or pitch more yeast.

 

[ba-brewer]

@finished1, what strain of yeast did you use? Do you know the MFG date that was on the package?

It is a good idea to have some dry yeast in your fridge for insurance for just such an occasion. A package of dry yeast is pretty much guaranteed to have enough yeast for a 5gal batch.

 

[finished1]

@finished1, what strain of yeast did you use? Do you know the MFG date that was on the package?

It is a good idea to have some dry yeast in your fridge for insurance for just such an occasion. A package of dry yeast is pretty much guaranteed to have enough yeast for a 5gal batch.

I took a picture of it.

 

[ba-brewer]

According to the information on the wyeast website that packet is one month from their recommended use by date. Even though they suggest a single smack pack is good for a 5gal batch they also say you may need more packs or do a starter.

When I started brewing I had use the yeast straight from the smack with OK results but dont do that any more. You will get better or more predictable results if you do a starter. The yeast calculator I use has the viability of your yeast at 30%, if your gravity was around 1050 you would need at least 5 or 6 times more yeast.

this is the calculator I use and like.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
If your yeast has not taken off by tomorrow I would pitch dry yeast and worry about making a starter next time.

 

[finished1]

According to the information on the wyeast website that packet is one month from their recommended use by date. Even though they suggest a single smack pack is good for a 5gal batch they also say you may need more packs or do a starter.

When I started brewing I had use the yeast straight from the smack with OK results but dont do that any more. You will get better or more predictable results if you do a starter. The yeast calculator I use has the viability of your yeast at 30%, if your gravity was around 1050 you would need at least 5 or 6 times more yeast.

this is the calculator I use and like.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
If your yeast has not taken off by tomorrow I would pitch dry yeast and worry about making a starter next time.

Thank you for the information. I am learning everyday from this site. I believe you are right. It has not taken off as of yet. How much dry yeast should I throw in? One package of about 11grams? More if needed? I am hoping it does not get infected. I have been really careful with the sanitation so I don't think it is. Thank you for your help @ba-brewer. I will keep this post updated.

 

[finished1]

According to the information on the wyeast website that packet is one month from their recommended use by date. Even though they suggest a single smack pack is good for a 5gal batch they also say you may need more packs or do a starter.

When I started brewing I had use the yeast straight from the smack with OK results but dont do that any more. You will get better or more predictable results if you do a starter. The yeast calculator I use has the viability of your yeast at 30%, if your gravity was around 1050 you would need at least 5 or 6 times more yeast.

this is the calculator I use and like.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
If your yeast has not taken off by tomorrow I would pitch dry yeast and worry about making a starter next time.

What do you use when making starters? Dry or liquid yeast?

 

[finished1]

According to the information on the wyeast website that packet is one month from their recommended use by date. Even though they suggest a single smack pack is good for a 5gal batch they also say you may need more packs or do a starter.

When I started brewing I had use the yeast straight from the smack with OK results but dont do that any more. You will get better or more predictable results if you do a starter. The yeast calculator I use has the viability of your yeast at 30%, if your gravity was around 1050 you would need at least 5 or 6 times more yeast.

this is the calculator I use and like.
http://www.brewunited.com/yeast_calculator.php
If your yeast has not taken off by tomorrow I would pitch dry yeast and worry about making a starter next time.

Sorry, but one last question. Do I pitch the dry yeast straight into the bucket?

 

[ba-brewer]

Sorry, but one last question. Do I pitch the dry yeast straight into the bucket?

Some types say you can just sprinkle on the top and other say to rehydrate. Rehydrating is suppose to be better for the yeast even if they say just sprinkle. US-05 and S-04 says you can sprinkle on top and I have used both that way.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thank you for the information. I am learning everyday from this site. I believe you are right. It has not taken off as of yet. How much dry yeast should I throw in? One package of about 11grams? More if needed? I am hoping it does not get infected. I have been really careful with the sanitation so I don't think it is. Thank you for your help @ba-brewer. I will keep this post updated.

If you are in the 1050 to 1060 range one package(11gm) of yeast should be fine.

What do you use when making starters? Dry or liquid yeast?

I only make a starter for liquid yeast. That is the good part about dry yeast, no starter required.

 

[beermanpete]

You can use vodka in the airlock instead of sanitizer. It won't prevent suck back but it seems less likely to be a source of anxiety should it occur. I buy the cheapest vodka I can find for this purpose. $10.00 or less for the 1.75L bottle.

 

[Nagorg]

+1 to vodka instead of sanitizer. Technically the percentage of alcohol in most vodka's isnt enough to really kill any nasty's. But I still use it because airlock suckback is next to unavoidable and a small amount of vodka in my beer is more appealing than sanitizer. I've never had any problems with this.

 

[finished1]

Update: So I looked at the other side of my fermentation bucket and I see this yellow crust on the side of the bucket. It seems the bucket may not be sealed properly is my guess. I noticed today an ever so slightly bubbles in my airlock. Not very much. I included a picture for you to see. Is this a correct guess? I will open later this afternoon to see if I have krausen. I bought yeast to pitch but am not sure if I should pitch it now.

 

[seatazzz]

DON'T OPEN THE BUCKET. Use a flashlight against the side and see if there is krausen residue (easy to see, will look like gunk stuck to the side of the fermenter). You risk oxidation if you take off the lid. From what I can see, you had a pretty active primary fermentation and now the yeast need to clean up after themselves. Yes, maybe the lid wasn't completely closed, but don't tempt fate. Give it another 4-5 days, then take a hydrometer sample. Right now is not the best time to risk oxidation.

 

[beermanpete]

That does not look like it came from the krausen leaking out past the lid. There are no stains indicating flow down from the top. It may be environment debris that happened to fall there. Don't wory about it for now. When you are ready to package the beer rack out through the open for the airlock if the hole is large enough. Wait until after you package the beer to investigate the seal between the lid and the bucket.

 

[finished1]

That does not look like it came from the krausen leaking out past the lid. There are no stains indicating flow down from the top. It may be environment debris that happened to fall there. Don't wory about it for now. When you are ready to package the beer rack out through the open for the airlock if the hole is large enough. Wait until after you package the beer to investigate the seal between the lid and the bucket.

Good call on looking a little closer because I wondered the same thing. Yep, it seems to be a faulty lid. It did not seal correctly. Here is a closer picture from underneath the lid. I know it's not environmental debris because I am anal about cleaning up and careful when I transfer.

 

[beermanpete]

Good call on looking a little closer because I wondered the same thing. Yep, it seems to be a faulty lid. It did not seal correctly. Here is a closer picture from underneath the lid. I know it's not environmental debris because I am anal about cleaning up and careful when I transfer.View attachment 565555

I still don't see signs of any flow. Maybe it is mold that grew on some wort that was not cleaned off after you filled the fermenter and pitched. I get mold on the outside of my fermeters sometimes when they are in the freezer since it is not cold enough to freeze the moisture builds up. Do you use a freezer of other closed space to control temp?

 

[finished1]

I still don't see signs of any flow. Maybe it is mold that grew on some wort that was not cleaned off after you filled the fermenter and pitched. I get mold on the outside of my fermeters sometimes when they are in the freezer since it is not cold enough to freeze the moisture builds up. Do you use a freezer of other closed space to control temp?

Not big enough for my fermenting bucket.

 

[finished1]

No krausen. Doesn't look infected? I have Camden tablets ready to go. Should I pitch them in and wait another 24 hrs or did I catch it in time?

 

[mulletmaster]

Won't camden tablets kill the yeast? I would pitch a pack of dry yeast on top and give it a shake.

 

[finished1]

Won't camden tablets kill the yeast? I would pitch a pack of dry yeast on top and give it a shake.

Well, campden tablets would slow down everything even the bacteria if it is growing. Usually wait about 24 hours after then pitch the yeast. I did not see any signs of an infection so I just threw the yeast in. Here is my thought process on why:

1. The PH of the wart was at 5 and some change. Too low for bacteria to grow because it looks like no fermentation has happened yet.

2. If i guessed right the yeast I pitched today will over take the bacteria before it has a chance to grab hold of the fermentation.

I guess we will find out.

 

[ba-brewer]

Top looks like you had no yeast activity. With the lid sealed your chances for bacteria are pretty slim, you were right to just pitch the yeast.

It seem you get pretty good temperature swings where you have the beer, the bubbles you seen today were probably just caused from the bucket warming up.