Looking for input on Stout Braggot

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Seeking Advice Improving Stout Braggot

I recently brewed my first attempt at an biab Imperial stout braggot and finally cracked it open a month after bottling. Overall it tasted good and is drinkable but needs to be refined a little, I felt as tho it came out a little too sweet and lacked any bitter notes. The recipe I formulated was as follows:

US 6-Row 1lb
Crystal Rye 6oz
Carahell 4oz
UK Dark Crystal 4oz (70L I believe)
Midnight Wheat Malt 2oz
Sovereign Hops Pellet 1oz (30 min boil)
Lallemand - LALBREW® VOSS KVEIK ALE YEAST 1 package

I am thinking of swapping Carafa III for the UK Dark Crystal. I am open to other suggestions and thoughts on why this plan might not work out.
 
We'll need a bit more information than this. What's your batch size? What was your OG? What was your FG? How much honey did you add and when? Did you caramelise the honey? Mash duration and temperatures? What were the AA percentages on your hops and what were the projected IBUs? Fermentation temperature and total time in the fermenter? What level of carbonation did you go for and have you reached that?

All these factors play into how you perceive the end product. That said, a few things already stand out to me. I'll assume you made one gallon or less since you added just two pounds of malt. You added 50% of specialty malts, most of which crystal malts. I'm not sure how dark the rye is, but they seem quite light at that. That will give you a bunch of sweetness, yes. I would consider dropping the cara-hell for more base malt, but I can't make full suggestions without a full recipe. Secondly, you're extremely short on roast for an imperial stout.
The last thing is conditioning time. Even with Voss, braggots and imperial stouts benefit from longer conditioning times and a month is very short. I condition most things with honey for at least six months just so the honey part can smooth out. Honey can also carry some sweetness that can be hard to balance.
 
@G_robertus is spot on: too much crystal (though crystal rye and UK dark are some of my favorites), not enough roast. For crystal, drop the Carahell (what's it doing, anyway?) and halve the other two.

One thing to consider is whether you're missing bitterness or astringency. Midnight wheat won't give the same burnt-tasting mouth-puckering astringency that roast barley will, and that astringency can offset sweetness. You want to go from huskless (Midnight wheat, chocolate rye, Carafa Special) to husked (roasted barley, chocolate, Carafa (not Special)) to pick up astringency.

Lack of bitterness you tweak by adding more hops!

Finally, you didn't ask, but I find that buckwheat honey works well for dark braggots.
 
We'll need a bit more information than this. What's your batch size? What was your OG? What was your FG? How much honey did you add and when? Did you caramelise the honey? Mash duration and temperatures? What were the AA percentages on your hops and what were the projected IBUs? Fermentation temperature and total time in the fermenter? What level of carbonation did you go for and have you reached that?
Sorry didn't realize the importance of some of that and forgot to add some.

Mash volume: 2.5 gallons
Volume after boil 1 gallon.

FERMENTABLES:
16 oz - US 6-Row (25%)
6 oz - Crystal Rye (9.4%)
4 oz - Carahell (6.3%)
4 oz - Dark Crystal 80L (6.3%)
2 oz - Midnight Wheat Malt (3.1%)
32 oz - Honey (Buckwheat) (50%)

HOPS:
1 oz - Sovereign Pellets (5.5 a.a)

YEAST:
LALBREW® VOSS KVEIK ALE YEAST 1 packet

90 minute mash temp between 150‐160°f
60 minute boil, added hops @30min for estimated ibu of 82.
Allowed to cool to 125° transferring to carboy and adding honey raw.

I took 2 OG readings first before adding the honey and then after. And adjusted it to my hydrometer's calibrated temperature 60°f.
OG w/ honey 1.110 temp 110°f
OG w/o honey 1.030 temp 125°f
Adjusted to OG w/ honey 1.118
Adjusted OG w/o honey 1.041

FG was ~1.02 after leaving in primary for 2 months at which point I bottled and tossed a brewers best carbonation drop in each bottle. Let sit at room temp (70°f) for 1 month before putting in fridge and opening 3 days later. Primary was not done at same room temp.
 
No worries! Thanks for posting your full recipe and procedure. Your IBUs seem on point and dilution by the honey won't be the issue I think. I still feel like you have a lot crystal malt and especially a lot of light caramel malt. Typically I avoid those in general or for very specific recipes, but pretty much always in high ABV brews. They can be very artificially, candy sweet and since a decent malt bill will leave sweetness as well. In a braggot you will have less residual sweetness from the malt, but like I said, honey also carries its own sense of sweetness. That, combined with the very small amount of roast in your recipe will make it somewhat unbalanced, especially when young. Don't be afraid to add in roasted barley and perhaps chocolate malt to create stout complexity and some astringency. I like a lot of roast, so I tend to add up to three times as much roast and less crystal malt.

In my first imperial stout braggot I added pale chocolate and black malt to balance it out more. I still feel like the honey overpowered it when young, but age definitely improved it. Honey tends to need a while to get good anyway. Try again in at least six months and try to think of another recipe you can brew and age in the meantime. It's a slow process, but we'll get there eventually.
 
So I've decided to make some modifications to my previous recipe hopefully they will provide for a better balance and enough roast astringency while retaining some of the notes from the original.

Updated recipe 1 gallon:

□6 Row 14oz (25%)

□Chocolate Rye 4oz (7.1%)

□Carafa III 4oz (7.1%)

□Roasted Barley 2oz (3.6%)

□UK Extra Dark Crystal 80°L 4oz (7.1%)

□Buckwheat Honey 28oz (50%)

□HBC 472 0.5oz 60 min boil

□HBC 472 0.5oz 15 min boil

□Lallemand - LALBREW® VOSS KVEIK ALE YEAST 1 package


My plan is for a 60-minute mash with temp around 150-155°f.
Followed by a 60-minute boil. With hop additions at 60 and 15 minutes. For an estimated IBU of 124.95 according to brewersfriend and 88 according to beersmith 3
Adding the honey after allowing the wort to cool.
I an then on the fence about adding oak and/or vanilla extract.
 
This looks very interesting. Are you using Carafa Special or regular? Regular might give a bit too much roast, but subbing special might leave you wanting more. However, it is definitely a very good place to start as you can determine whether you like the roast character or find it lacking some astringency to balance. I like the rye in there as well, it's my new roast malt play thing.

I'm unfamiliar with the hops, but as long as they don't add too much fruit character and more wood they might work if they survive ageing.

I wouldn't add spices or wood from the start. Try it without anything first and then decide if you want to add it by trying it out in a glass. If you bulk age you can always add wood and spices after ageing. If you age in a bottle you'll have to either decide to guess the flavour outcome at packaging, or make a mix you can add to your glass for the remainder of the batch if you really want to. Or just make the batch again with the additions and compare them.
 
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