Looking for a good stout recipe...

[the_bird]

Alrightly, got to make a trip to the HBS this weekend to buy hops for dryhopping Walker's IPA, might as well pick up ingredients for the next brew while I'm there.

Thinking about doing a mocha-flavored stout, so I'm looking for a good base stout recipe that I can start with and modify with some chocolate and some coffee. I'd love to deflower my lauter tun, so ideal would be something that I can do as a partial mash. I'm also reviewing the best approaches to adding the chocolate and coffee to the mix; any suggestions would be appreciated (a little vanilla is one trick that I know of from cooking).

Now, because of those two flavors, seems as though I want to add a little bit of extra sweetness to the brew somehow. With maltose do the trick, or is that going to just add body (not a bad thing) without much sweetness? Are there other things to add to help bring out the other flavors?

Much thanks in advance for all the help!

 

[Dude]

As long as you are doing Walker's recipes, try his recipe for the stout he did too. That was one of the best stouts I've had. That is how I'd want a stout to taste. It was awesome. I know he has links for those recipes somewhere...maybe his sig?

 

[artfldodger]

yeah, they're in his sig, and that coffee stout sounds delicious. Gotta put that one on my "to do" list.

 

[the_bird]

His IPA at least *smells* phe-frickin-nomenal. Don't want him to think I'm a stalker, though, maybe just a Walker-disciple. Is there a word for a ninja trainee?

 

[The Happy Mug]

I'm afraid it's a daiper samarai.

 

[the_bird]

OK, given Walker's recipe:

Grains
1.00 lb Crystal 90°L
0.50 lb Black Barley
0.50 lb Roasted Barley
1.00 lb CaraPils
Malt Extracts/Sugars

66 oz Laaglander Dark DME
44 oz Briess Extra Light DME
16 oz dark brown sugar

Hops
1.50 oz Perle (9%) @ 60 minutes

Misc
1 tsp gypsum added prior to steeping grains
1 tsp Irish Moss added with 20 minutes left in the boil
20 oz brewed espresso, added at bottling time.

Yeast
Wyeast 1084 - Irish Ale

Priming
I like my stout low in carbonation, so I use 1/2 cups
corn sugar in 2 cups water. Boiled for 5 minutes.

How would I go about converting this to a partial mash? I'm assuming - perhaps incorrectly? - that all of his grains are steeping? Is this even a good recipe to break in the lauter tun on, or should I just do it as close to his specs as possible?

 

[Exo]

Hmm, I've got a definite " hankerin' " to brew a good stout. Walker's recipe just sound's o' so delicious. I think this will be an august brew with a drinking goal of Christmas-ish.

By coincidence I'm enjoying my last "Road Slush" stout from New Glarus Brewing Co. It's just extremely tasty and a perfect room-temp drink. I might modify this recipe a little bit and get some oatmeal in there...that's an after-taste I'm looking for...combine it with the espresso and it's a deadly combo for me. "Road Slush" also accounts for some chocolate malts as well as some Wisconsin Victory malts.

 

[the_bird]

Well, I want to convert this to more of a mocha stout than just an espresso one, so I'll be adding some chocolate at some point in the process.

Couple other questions (I could really use some help here, folks):

1. Trying to add some sweetness to the brew; will lactose help at all, or will that just give me some more body? Does the brown sugar have enough non-fermentables that this will already have some sweetness to it?

2. My understanding of chocolate malt (which I've never used) is that it doesn't REALLY add a chocolate flavor; true? Should I add a little?

 

[sirsloop]

Its going to be tough to get a sweet chocolate flavor in the beer. Chocolate (Cacao) is naturally bitter, and only through adding sugar and fat does it start tasting like "chocolate".

If you want a rockin coffee stout...

Double Barrel Coffee Stout

5.5 gallon batch

Ingredients:
7lbs Dark Malt Extract
3/4lbs Roasted Barley - cracked
10oz Expresso Coffee – finely ground
1 Packet of Yeast
3/4 cup Corn Sugar
1oz Chinook hops
1oz Saaz Hops
1tsp Irish Moss

Procedure
• Place bag of roasted barley in 2 gallons of water and bring to 160°F
• Steep for 20 minutes – stirring regularly and vigorously
• Pull out grain bag – sparge with 170° water optional
• Add coffee bean and stir until beans are suspended.
• Add malt extract and and boil for one hour
• Add Chinook Hops at 45 minutes
• Add Irish Moss at 15 minutes.
• Add Saaz Hops at 10 minutes

I wouldnt recommend using fancy yeast for this brew if you plan on saving it for another batch because the coffee settles to the bottom and will mess up your yeast cake. Nottinghams dry ale yeast works well. I use Muntons DME as it makes a dryer stout, and use one of those vacuum sealed foil bricks of expresso from the store. I recommend against regular coffee as it ends up tasting like foldgers instant coffee beer when its done. The beer has a VERY strong coffee taste at bottling, but after the beer ages for a good 3-4 weeks it smooths out and just plain rocks. Rich, coffee bitter, nutty, buzz beer!!

 

[the_bird]

Thanks, that sounds tasty as well.

I don't want a *sweet* chocolate flavor, just enough sweetness to pull out the a little bit of the chocolate flavor. Not wanting or expecting a Hershey's Kiss beer. I am one to drink my coffee black.

I'm wondering about using a flavored coffee bean which I would grind fresh, or perhaps a 50/50 split between a dark roast or espresso bean and a mocha-flavored bean? Take advantage of the mocha flavor already added to the coffee rather than trying to worry about adding Baker's chocolate or something.

 

[sirsloop]

I thought about doing that as well for my German Chocolate Stout. I would have, but problem is you can only find German Chocolate Coffee from Timothys mail order for 20 bucks a pound shipped!! OUCH!

Most of the larger grocery stores have chocolate flavored bean coffee which will work. If you use their grinder, make sure you put at at the absolute finest grind, and maybe even run it through the machine twice. You want coffee powder!! If you end up using regular coffee instead of expresso, I would consider using more than a pound for a 5 gallon batch. My buddy used a pound of regular dunkin donuts coffee (which is pretty heavy itself) and it ended up with very little body compared to my 10oz expresso bean brew. This beer has a pretty high IBU with the Chinook hops boiled in there.... it really is great

 

[the_bird]

So, I'm a little confused by your procedures. Finely ground coffee, but the procedures say to add the "bean" prior to the boil; do you boil the grounds for the full hour? You did mean coffee GROUNDS, not coffee BEANS, right?

 

[sirsloop]

i just wrote bean in there... I suppose I should have said grounds...

You just put the grounds right into the water after you pull out the steeping bag, pre boil. Also, you have to stir this one pretty much constantly to prevent scorching of the coffee. You'll end up with wort that resembles the color of roofing tar

 

[the_bird]

You have any problems with head retention because of the coffee's oils?

 

[sirsloop]

nope... it actually holds a head quite well.

 

[the_bird]

Good body? (sounds like I'm talking to Cheesefood now)

I'm still thinking about a bit of lactose for whatever sweetness it brings, and I would like this to be real nice and smooth. I'm picturing this as a great brew to drink at room temp on a fall evening. I think I'll add a little bit of Baker's chocolate as well as using a combination of chocolate-flavored and dark roasted coffee beans. I'll wash and re-use the ale yeast my IPA is sitting on now (or does that present a potential problem?)

I'd still like to try my hand at a partial mash, any ideas out there how to convert this recipe?

 

[sirsloop]

lol... dont know how else to describe it. When you drink his coffee stout it tastes wastered down. You try mine and its like BAM! COFFEE STOUT!

Yeah, you can certianly use whatever yeast you want. Maybe you should make a small starter out of half of your IPA cake. You wont be able to salvange the cake from a coffee stout cause it will be littered with coffee grounds.

Really you'll just have to convert 7lbs of dark DME into all grain. I dont have a lot of experience with it, but im sure you could post up something in the AG forum. To get it sweeter, try mashing at a higher temeprature. I havent tried using lactose yet as I prefer a dry stout.... so no help there...

 

[the_bird]

Alrighty, much thanks. Think I'll stick to extract-only on this batch, I'll play around with partial mashes with something else, something more straightforward. I think I know what I'm doing, whether I'm doing it right or not!

 

[troybinso]

I would think some cocoa powder would do the trick. Just mix it in with some ground cofee near the end of the boil. I don't think you want that coffee/cocoa boiling for 60 minutes. Overcooked coffee is really bitter and tannic.

Chocolate malt gives brown color, and roasty flavor. Not really any chocolate flavor with chocolate malt.

As for sweetness, aren't there some grains that add unfermentable sugars? Maybe some oats? I guess lactose is good for that too.

 

[BootYtRappeR]

I would think some cocoa powder would do the trick. Just mix it in with some ground cofee near the end of the boil. I don't think you want that coffee/cocoa boiling for 60 minutes. Overcooked coffee is really bitter and tannic.

Chocolate malt gives brown color, and roasty flavor. Not really any chocolate flavor with chocolate malt.

As for sweetness, aren't there some grains that add unfermentable sugars? Maybe some oats? I guess lactose is good for that too.

You could steep some crystal in there to get a little sweetness and add a little lactose as well.

Oats will only add starch to your brew as they need to be mashed to extract anything useful.

cheesefoods caramel cream ale had a little residual sweetness to it. Maybe you could take the amounts of crystal and lactose and use it in your stout! That's what I would do at least!

let us know current recipe!

 

[sirsloop]

I'm a coffee head to begin with, so mixing beer and expresso it like the best thing on earth. If you dont like the taste of black coffee then its probably not for you.

Ive had like four different coffee stout batches that were boiled for 60 minutes... the 5th is gonna get done next week. IMHO its GREAT!! opinions are like as.... ya know

 

[the_bird]

How much lactose, you think? Cheesefood uses what, 4 oz? I'm thinking MAYBE a half pound to really bring out the flavors? Again, don't want necessarily a lot of sweetness, but something full bodied and with a lot of flavor. Can't forget a touch of vanilla, (1oz?) as well.

I think I'm going to go with (tell me where I'm off)

********
7lbs Dark DME
0.5# Roasted Barley
0.5# Chocolate Malt - OR SHOULD IT BE BLACK PATENT MALT?
1.5# Crystal 90L
0.5# lactose (20 min)

1oz Chinook (60 min) - WORKING OFF SIRSLOOP'S IDEAS - NEED INPUT ON HOPS
.5oz Saaz (30 min)
.5oz Saaz (5 min)

0.5# ground espresso or dark roast coffee - at flameout
0.5# mocha-flavored ground coffee - at flameout
1 oz natural vanilla - at flameout

American-Style Ale yeast (some form)

1.25 cups Light DME for priming

*************
I'm not sure about whether to go with Black Patent or Chocolate Malt for my specialty grains; I know Chocolate isn't *really* chocolate, but if the brew ended up a very dark brown instread of black, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

I have no idea about hops; I'm thinking along the lines of sirsloop's stout, but am open to ideas. I noted that Charlie P used Northern Brewer in a cherry tout, I'm open to NB. I do like the idea of having a little bit of a hops addition halfway through, for a more dynamic hops profile.

A lot of the other stuff in here is ideas that I've picked up here and there, from old posts and whatnot. When should I add the lactose? Some were suggesting long ago at with 20 minutes to go in the boil; not sure why.

I don't want to boil the coffee grounds, I'm scared of having a nasty flavor with a lot of tannins removed. I want to treat the grounds almost as if I were brewing with my french press - they go into nearly-boiling, but NOT boiling water and steep for a while. Fuller flavor extraction. I'm assuming that I want to filter them out as best I can when transferring to the primary, that I don't need or want them in for the fermentation. I'll just leave the pot alone, steeping, on the stove for five or ten minutes (covered) before starting the wort cooling process. Can't see how that would be a problem, the wort will still be what, 180 - 200 degrees, no nasties going to get a headstart at those temps.

Any input? Am I on the right track? I ought to download promash and see what it says, but have not gotten around to that yet (I'm sure that will be another $25 i invest in this hobby).

Remember, I'm a noob with thick skin, so let me know if you think I'm about to make any terrible mistakes.

EDIT: I'm leaning towards 1.5 oz Northern Brewer for bittering, I see that in a few more recipes... still would love some opinions.

EDIT 2: Almost forgot the Baker's chocolate. Not sure the quantity, I want the chocolate flavor to come partially from this, partially from the coffee beans. I'm also leaning towards more like 3/4# lactose.

 

[the_bird]

I'm a coffee head to begin with, so mixing beer and expresso it like the best thing on earth. If you dont like the taste of black coffee then its probably not for you.

Ive had like four different coffee stout batches that were boiled for 60 minutes... the 5th is gonna get done next week. IMHO its GREAT!! opinions are like as.... ya know

See, I think *I* would really like your recipe, I love my coffee to stand up in the cup and order me around, but that's not a universally held opinion among those who drink my brew!

 

[the_bird]

Oh, and what's the deal with gypsum? It's in Walker's recipe, it's in Charlie P's recipe - is it something specific to making a stout, or something that depends on my water? Are some grains more sensitive to PH, and therefore I *might* or *might not* need to add gypsum? Does it add to the traditional stout character?

 

[BootYtRappeR]

How much lactose, you think? Cheesefood uses what, 4 oz? I'm thinking MAYBE a half pound to really bring out the flavors? Again, don't want necessarily a lot of sweetness, but something full bodied and with a lot of flavor. Can't forget a touch of vanilla, (1oz?) as well.

I think I'm going to go with (tell me where I'm off)

********
7lbs Dark DME
0.5# Roasted Barley
0.5# Chocolate Malt - OR SHOULD IT BE BLACK PATENT MALT?
1.5# Crystal 90L
0.5# lactose (20 min)

1oz Chinook (60 min) - WORKING OFF SIRSLOOP'S IDEAS - NEED INPUT ON HOPS
.5oz Saaz (30 min)
.5oz Saaz (5 min)

0.5# ground espresso or dark roast coffee - at flameout
0.5# mocha-flavored ground coffee - at flameout
1 oz natural vanilla - at flameout

American-Style Ale yeast (some form)

1.25 cups Light DME for priming

*************
I'm not sure about whether to go with Black Patent or Chocolate Malt for my specialty grains; I know Chocolate isn't *really* chocolate, but if the brew ended up a very dark brown instread of black, that wouldn't be a bad thing.

I have no idea about hops; I'm thinking along the lines of sirsloop's stout, but am open to ideas. I noted that Charlie P used Northern Brewer in a cherry tout, I'm open to NB. I do like the idea of having a little bit of a hops addition halfway through, for a more dynamic hops profile.

A lot of the other stuff in here is ideas that I've picked up here and there, from old posts and whatnot. When should I add the lactose? Some were suggesting long ago at with 20 minutes to go in the boil; not sure why.

I don't want to boil the coffee grounds, I'm scared of having a nasty flavor with a lot of tannins removed. I want to treat the grounds almost as if I were brewing with my french press - they go into nearly-boiling, but NOT boiling water and steep for a while. Fuller flavor extraction. I'm assuming that I want to filter them out as best I can when transferring to the primary, that I don't need or want them in for the fermentation. I'll just leave the pot alone, steeping, on the stove for five or ten minutes (covered) before starting the wort cooling process. Can't see how that would be a problem, the wort will still be what, 180 - 200 degrees, no nasties going to get a headstart at those temps.

Any input? Am I on the right track? I ought to download promash and see what it says, but have not gotten around to that yet (I'm sure that will be another $25 i invest in this hobby).

Remember, I'm a noob with thick skin, so let me know if you think I'm about to make any terrible mistakes.

EDIT: I'm leaning towards 1.5 oz Northern Brewer for bittering, I see that in a few more recipes... still would love some opinions.

EDIT 2: Almost forgot the Baker's chocolate. Not sure the quantity, I want the chocolate flavor to come partially from this, partially from the coffee beans. I'm also leaning towards more like 3/4# lactose.

cheesfood's recipe calls for 4oz in the boil and then another 1cup during priming. I think I used half of this and could barely taste any sweetness at all (but still some). look for some "milk stout" or "cream stout" recipes to give some ideas for lactose as well.

I'm not real familiar with the chocolate vs black patent but I *think* black patent will give you that burnt kind of bitterness that you can find in a Guinness Extra stout (i love it...some people don't....esp. the BMC crowd!!!)


Other than that I think the recipe looks good, although I don't think the 1 oz vanilla will do much of anything.

Just brew it!
There will always be something you will change the next time around!

 

[mysterio]

Half a pound of lactose sounds good. I would stay away from any late hops... you don't want hops interfering with your mocha flavours.

Do you have a water profile? Gypsum will help buffer your water ph so I'd consider using a small amount... assuming you have soft water. I'm not sure if you want too many sulphates in there though - this will accentuate the hop bitterness. Also consider some chalk if you're using lots of roasted malts.

 

[sirsloop]

chinook hops are a pretty bitter hop.... like 12-13% acid and can contribute to a pretty high IBU if boiled for 60 minutes. I like it, but if you dont like a beer with a little bite then you may want to cut back on boil tim, or quantity of Chinook.... or use something else less potent. I LOVE the aroma of Saaz... i usually end up eating a few while brewing...

Agreed with the aroma hops.... you're shootin for mocha armoa, not saaz

 

[the_bird]

Well, this beer I don't think wants the bite. OK, substituting out the Chinook, in with Northern Brewer.

Should I use some flavoring hops, or JUST bittering? Maybe 1.5oz NB for bittering, 0.5 for flavoring? Just 2.0oz for bittering, nothing else? Leaning towards the former...

 

[mysterio]

2oz bittering and nothing else sounds good; NB is a nice clean bittering hop. Chocolate, coffee and hop together will not work!

 

[the_bird]

Ok, that works.

How about the grains? Am I more-or-less in the right ballpark?