Long time all grain brewer going back to extract and I'm glad I did.

[bracconiere]

Braccy.... if you are serious... there was another on line provider i saw with these... but i dont remember who. I will look.

i am serious... what's the difference of dropping a K on a year at once or, $13$21 a every other week?

 

[Nate R]

i am serious... what's the difference of dropping a K on a year at once or, $13$21 a every other week?

Dude... you might want to consider a resale licensce. You could sign up for a whoesale account with Morebeer and save a few more bucks even.
I bet you could use the resale for your grains too, maybe...

 

[kartracer2]

(but shipping....)

Why do I feel a road trip coming on?

i am serious... what's the difference of dropping a K on a year at once or, $13$21 a every other week?

Yeah, but using it before it got stale. I would think you would need CO2 or something on it before you used it all.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Nate R]

Ok... here it is for $760:
(Also owned by morebeer)
https://www.homebrewers.com/product...TR4TeHIAV-nRpJUrcDc9T8f0iaMnMcD0aAgC_EALw_wcB

 

[Nate R]

Why do I feel a road trip coming on?


Yeah, but using it before it got stale. I would think you would need CO2 or something on it before you used it all.
Cheers,
Joel B.

50# sacks DME? Better long term storage, but more $$$

 

[kartracer2]

50# sacks DME? Better long term storage, but more $$$

Add a "Seal-a-Meal" machine and bags to the $$$.
But we are high-jacking the thread a bit, maybe,
Sorry OP.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[bracconiere]

Sorry OP.

don't worry about him... this is so totally on topic, about brewing in a fraction of the time.. i just brew once a week, and a 650lb 55 gallon barrel of LME would help take the pain out of brew day....

i clicked on the link for the $750 barrel...shipping says $227 for a total of something like 997..that's less then $2 a pound for LME....i'd be lucky to get honey for that....i'm still not sure how residential frieght works though?

 

[Nate R]

Yeah... we 100% hijacked this thread. Sorry OP.

(Edit: actually, i think this is in the spirit of the op post- brewin' easy with extract and savin' money too).

But:
I agree Braccy- this IS more fun! Lol.

As @kartracer2 stated, you will need to get additional gear:
"Additional equipment that is required but not included is a drum gate for viscous liquids, a drum dolly, and an inert gas distrubution system."

Maybe you can split it up with a local HB club?

Also Braccy- for the shipping- you may need liftgate service which adds another like $75 or more. Ask Morebeer (aka Home Brewers outpost). They can help.
Unless.... do you have a forklift? Maybe you can find a good deal and that can be another fun diy project, a la the dryer rebuild?

 

[Jayjay1976]

Curious what the LODO crowd has to say on DME @Bilsch , since it must surely be fully oxidized.... I've had lots of really good beers brewed with DME, not sure they all lacked that "thing"... Most were pretty damned tasty.

 

[Nate R]

Curious what the LODO crowd has to say on DME @Bilsch , since it must surely be fully oxidized.... I've had lots of really good beers brewed with DME, not sure they all lacked that "thing"... Most were pretty damned tasty.

This thread is off-limits to the LODO crowd! Lol

 

[Jayjay1976]

Add a "Seal-a-Meal" machine and bags to the $$$.
But we are high-jacking the thread a bit, maybe,
Sorry OP.
Cheers,
Joel B.

Beyond suction sealed bags try a vac chamber, it evacuates all the gases before sealing. Avid Armor makes a nice one, mine pulls 30" mercury.

 

[Bilsch]

Curious what the LODO crowd has to say on DME @Bilsch , since it must surely be fully oxidized.... I've had lots of really good beers brewed with DME, not sure they all lacked that "thing"... Most were pretty damned tasty.

C'mon man, I get in enough trouble around here on my own. I don't need encouragement.

 

[kartracer2]

Beyond suction sealed bags try a vac chamber, it evacuates all the gases before sealing. Avid Armor makes a nice one, mine pulls 30" mercury.

Yea, I saw that thread. Looks like a cool machine. Kinda industrial grade cool. Back when I worked maintenance at a packing plant, the QC lab had a couple of machines like that, used for shelf life studies and the like.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Bobby_M]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/aha-homebrewer-of-the-year.695096/
eta: In other forums, there is a "conventional wisdom" that one can brew hop-forward or yeast-forward beers with extract (but not malt forward). The 2021 award winning beer appears to challenge that "conventional wisdom". Maybe fresh DME/LME is just another ingredient and the secret to brewing great beer is process (rather than ingredients).

There will always be outliers, AKA even a broken clock is correct twice a day. I'm not saying you can't brew an award winning amazing beer with extract. You just probably won't. Scratch that. I'm just projecting. "I" won't (probably can't) make award winning beer with extract.

 

[Jayjay1976]

C'mon man, I get in enough trouble around here on my own. I don't need encouragement.

You're the lone voice of reason on LoDO, much respect brother.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I only brewed extracts for my first 5 batches

"I" won't (probably can't) make award winning beer with extract.

No worries. It's being done by others who use the ingredient.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Yes, read the instructions first. I have been noticing more recipes going with the late addition of some of the extract in the partial boils. I shoot for 50% +/- preboil, remainder after flame out, that's with a 3g. boil to start on a 5g batch. It just depends on keeping it simple with numbers. One of the reasons I use BeerSmith is to tailor recipes to that end.

Recipe software is a good way to double check the changes.

My guess is though, if you do all the right things like you do with AG brewing you will come up with a very drinkable extract beer.

In this topic, the stories from people actively brewing with extract support your observation.

Over the time, ingredients (DME, dry yeast) have improved. And they will continue to improve.

Processes (use low mineral water, make a slurry to prevent scorching, ...) also improve. And they will continue to improve.

 

[soccerdad]

I still do 2 or 3 extract batches every year. And I like them. A LOT. There are some styles that despite my best efforts, I have not matched the quality of those extract beers. Maybe my efforts with those styles has been half assed. I need to research that.
I usually do those beers on a day when time is critical. Most extract boils can be done in 30 minutes or less, so the overall brew day is much shorter.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I only brewed extracts for my first 5 batches and switched to all grain for the next 16 years. I contemplated the fact that I didn't care for the quality of extract beers primarily because the majority of people who brew extract are beginners. That's a true generalization so if you've been brewing extracts for years don't get your panties in a wad. Anyway, since most extract brewers are beginners, it follows that there are mistakes being made across all aspects of production all the way through packaging. I told myself that for a while.

If it's true that extract brewing can match the quality of all grain, someone who has mastered the end to end process, including cold side controls, pitch rates and oxygen avoidance should be able to crank out amazing extract beers. I just don't see it. I've brewed demo batches over the years for beginner brewing classes and the beers were pretty blah. Even when I've avoided using LME in favor of DME for its shelf stability it all had some level of that homebrew flavor.

I know people like it just fine and that's great but it's not for me. I do accept that for many people if extract couldn't be the simpler entrance into the hobby, they would likely not get involved at all. For that reason alone, it's a worthy process.

I think I would rather drink a properly made extract homebrew than a flawed all grain homebrew.

Extract lets you pass the chore of the most difficult and time consuming step of brewing over to an professional and an expert, while the steps you are less likely to screw up under your purview. Plus you can save some time.

Either way you get to call it homebrew.

 

[kartracer2]

Recipe software is a good way to double check the changes.


In this topic, the stories from people actively brewing with extract support your observation.

^^^ I am this person. I have said this before, I am the only judge that matters. I don't make my beer for any body else's approval.

Over the time, ingredients (DME, dry yeast) have improved. And they will continue to improve.

^^^Back when I first started, I think there were 4 different extracts, 1) dark, 2) not so dark, 3)a little lighter than not so dark and 4) a little lighter than not so dark with wheat. (LOL). +1 on the dry yeast.

Processes (use low mineral water, make a slurry to prevent scorching, ...) also improve. And they will continue to improve.

Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[faithie999]

https://www.morebeer.com/products/a...5AuyBClPUuF1okOp35z6-EsOhfI0vRF0aAoyNEALw_wcB

50lb sack of dry only ~$180...hmmmm.... even easier then opening and dumping 20 64oz containers of apple juice. and about the same price!

great fermentations' price is $157. as with morebeer, shipping isn't free for heavy items.

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I have a few extract recipes that are in my rotation. I've tried to duplicate with all grain, but just missed the mark. They're great for a short brew day too. Start to finish in an hour.

I entered one into a competition once. It did very well. One of the judge's notes went on about my mash times and temperatures and how long I should sparge for - it was laughable. I think the judge was hitting the judging before the judging began.

 

[JimRausch]

I mostly do AG batches from recipes that I have designed. But there are some recipes that just seem to come out better as an extract. I'm thinking of the Northern Brewer Caribou Slobber kit particularly.

 

[davidabcd]

As soon as more than half of a test group of average people are able to differentiate between just Coke and Pepsi* when drinking from unmarked cups, I'll consider a discussion of which brewing method is actually better.
If someone is not given cues (style, color, blurb of what they're supposed to taste), beer would be mighty hard to tell one from another within a style, much less how it was made.

*Fun to check out

 

[kartracer2]

I mostly do AG batches from recipes that I have designed. But there are some recipes that just seem to come out better as an extract. I'm thinking of the Northern Brewer Caribou Slobber kit particularly.

Thanks for that input. I have been wanting to try that one.
As just a side question. Any idea why that beer is better for you as an extract version than using the AG method? (thinking about the question, it's a dumb one. you would probably make the change if you knew , right? LOL)
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[kartracer2]

Just to keep the water muddy:
In competitions you create a beer to a style and then it's judged to that style. Could it be that maybe it's harder to make an extract beer to that exact style? Possibly, could the idea of extract beer being thought of "inferior" is because not meeting style yet could still be a very good beer ? Color is one thing that's really hard to get right with extract yet the first thing judged.
I'll try to explain it this way.
I make what I call a "frankndunkelweizen". It will not fit into any style guidelines for any number of reasons. I think it's a good beer. It will not win any awards out side of my house but it's "gold" to me.
That may not make any sense, I seldom do, just spitballing I guess.
Cheers,
Joel B.

 

[Jayjay1976]

As soon as more than half of a test group of average people are able differentiate between just Coke and Pepsi* when drinking from unmarked cups, I'll consider a discussion of which brewing method is actually better.
If someone is not given cues (style, color, blurb of what they're supposed to taste), beer would be mighty hard to tell one from another within a style, much less how it was made.

*Fun to check out

Kenner trinken RC cola.

 

[Carolina_Matt]

When I switched from extract to BIAB, I noticed an immediate improvement in my beer. I'm definitely glad I switched. But when Northern has their extract sales, I've been tempted to buy a 3-pack of the Dead Ringer IPA for ~$23/kit. I typically get my grains and water ready the night before so I can start my mash as soon as I wake up. It would be nice to have extract kits on hand if I want a shorter, impromptu brew-day.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think I would rather drink a properly made extract homebrew than a flawed all grain homebrew.

This goes without saying but its a false dichotomy. Is that the only choice? How about a properly made all grain brew? My point is that if we're already brewing "properly" then all grain gives you more control of the sugar profile as well as opens up way more usable ingredients.

Extract lets you pass the chore of the most difficult and time consuming step of brewing over to an professional and an expert, while the steps you are less likely to screw up under your purview. Plus you can save some time.

I don't agree that the mashing is the most difficult step. Fermentation, cold side handling, and final packaging is probably the most involved and impactful step.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Color is one thing that's really hard to get right with extract yet the first thing judged.

Within BJCP guidelines, color is a range. For the styles that I brew with DME, I haven't had a problem with getting color in that range.

Maybe "color hard to get right" is due to a "darker than expected" starting color for the extract?

Evaluating the freshness of malt before using it is a well known practice. Similar techniques for evaluating the quality of LME also exist (BYO Dec 2020)