London trip recommendation

[Bago-0]

Going to London next week. First time there. Can anyone recommend any breweries / pubs that I should visit.

 

[rmr9]

Check out Fuller’s if you can and as far as pubs go I liked The Harp - close-ish to Trafalgar Square. Lots of great cask ale. That was 3 years ago though so hopefully it’s the same. Not sure what their Covid rules are though.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Going to London next week. First time there. Can anyone recommend any breweries / pubs that I should visit.

I presume I'm coming to this a bit late, but this pre-pandemic thread would have been useful :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...-london-help-appreciated.672199/#post-8718779
Now's a good time, as it's green hop beer season (our name for wet/fresh-hop beer). However Des de Moor's update to his London pub book has been delayed, it's finally coming out later this month.

 

[user 298779]

If you wanna have some fresh Sam Smith’s beer on tap/cask they have a pub in London.

https://www.standard.co.uk/reveller/bars/the-15-best-sam-smith-s-pubs-in-london-ranked-a3954501.html
Cheers

KBW.

 

[user 298779]

Going to London next week. First time there. Can anyone recommend any breweries / pubs that I should visit.

CAUTION: Though lower in alcohol than typical US microbrewery beers, English beers are delicious and therefore lead to inebriation. Use care when attempting to walk outdoors after consumption. Use building walls, railings, other immovable objects to help remain upright.

 

[Steveruch]

Several years ago I read that the way to locate the best beer in England is to find an older employee of the hotel where you're staying and ask him where he goes for a pint.

 

[user 298779]

Several years ago I read that the way to locate the best beer in England is to find an older employee of the hotel where you're staying and ask him where he goes for a pint.

Absolutely! Excellent way to find a good local. Unless the person dislikes Americans….

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Several years ago I read that the way to locate the best beer in England is to find an older employee of the hotel where you're staying and ask him where he goes for a pint.

I can see how that might have worked once upon a time, but is probably out of date these days given that many of the generation that are old-but-young-enough-to-work will have picked up their drinking habits since the lager revolution of the mid-70s, so will probably be Carling and Fosters drinkers.

Sam Smiths has some amazing pub buildings in London (notably eg the Louise) but has nothing like the reputation for beer quality that Merchant du Vin has achieved for them in the US, partly because here they are primarily judged on the quality of their cask ales - of which there is only one, and an ordinary bitter at that. They don't get as much credit as they perhaps deserve, but another factor is the boss, Humphrey Smith, who just isn't a very good human being. And given the choice in London in particular, a lot of people here aren't minded to give him their money.

 

[user 298779]

I can see how that might have worked once upon a time, but is probably out of date these days given that many of the generation that are old-but-young-enough-to-work will have picked up their drinking habits since the lager revolution of the mid-70s, so will probably be Carling and Fosters drinkers.

Sam Smiths has some amazing pub buildings in London (notably eg the Louise) but has nothing like the reputation for beer quality that Merchant du Vin has achieved for them in the US, partly because here they are primarily judged on the quality of their cask ales - of which there is only one, and an ordinary bitter at that. They don't get as much credit as they perhaps deserve, but another factor is the boss, Humphrey Smith, who just isn't a very good human being. And given the choice in London in particular, a lot of people here aren't minded to give him their money.

Good info, thanks. Yeah I liked the Sam Smith’s environment but they only had a few good cask beers on tap.

I‘ve been disappointed to see how popular the lager revolution has become. In large part because that’s what I grew up with and it’s so prevalent in the states. I became bonkers for cask ales and other English beers after my first pint. It’s part of British heritage and while old school it’s just dang good beer. But that’s just one man’s opinion.

Trends are cyclical so I can envision a real ale renaissance in the future. It’ll become hip and trendy…LOL. It’s happened here with piss beer like PBR….

Cheers (those are mugs of bitters ).

KBW.

 

[rmr9]

Good info, thanks. Yeah I liked the Sam Smith’s environment but they only had a few good cask beers on tap.

I‘ve been disappointed to see how popular the lager revolution has become. In large part because that’s what I grew up with and it’s so prevalent in the states. I became bonkers for cask ales and other English beers after my first pint. It’s part of British heritage and while old school it’s just dang good beer. But that’s just one man’s opinion.

Trends are cyclical so I can envision a real ale renaissance in the future. It’ll become hip and trendy…LOL. It’s happened here with piss beer like PBR….

Cheers (those are mugs of bitters ).

KBW.

I agree, I was hooked after my first pint of cask ale as well! I made the choice to get my hands on a beer engine and cask over a keg because of it.

I’d love to see the cask ale scene take off here in the US, but it’s hard to take care of and serve correctly. Your average bar/restaurant won’t want to invest in the training and attention it takes to do it right.

 

[RCope]

I've only been to London twice, but I do enjoy all things British, especially if beer is involved. My favorite pub is The Sherlock Holmes Pub, which was a short walk from one of the places I stayed. It sounds touristy (I'm a tourist) but the upstairs restaurant was amazing and the ground floor pub was top-notch. I *may* have over-indulged so take my advice with a grain of salt . I will defer to our home brewers across the pond who may have more extensive experience...

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Good info, thanks. Yeah I liked the Sam Smith’s environment but they only had a few good cask beers on tap.

In the last 20-odd years there will have been only one on the bar, unless you caught the one-off release of Stingo in cask a few years ago.

Trends are cyclical so I can envision a real ale renaissance in the future. It’ll become hip and trendy…LOL.

It's taken a real beating from the uncertain trade after the pandemic - publicans don't want lots of a beer with short shelf life in the current environment, so the number on the bar has contracted - although that's not altogether a bad thing, a lot of pubs have tended to go for choice at the expense of turnover and hence quality. So there are signs that it's going to be less of a thing in the mass market and retreat to specialist pubs who look after it properly, and you've had eg Cloudwater taking a fairly no compromises attitude to it - they stopped doing cask altogether at one point, to general uproar, and are now doing it only as a special, pricing it the same as keg (ie a lot more than cask drinkers are used to)

My favorite pub is The Sherlock Holmes Pub, which was a short walk from one of the places I stayed. It sounds touristy (I'm a tourist)

Is that the one off Northumberland Avenue? Cute enough but it's owned by Greene King so I wouldn't hurry in there, and in any case the Harp is two blocks away, one of the great cask pubs in the whole of the UK, so I'm quite happy for the tourists to go elsewhere if it means that it's less of a scrum in the (permanently busy) Harp....

 

[RufusBrewer]

Try the English version of beer that is available in The States. I recall England's Bass Ale was beautifully superior to what we get in The States.

 

[norrismj]

I use the "cask finder app" to find pubs near me with good cask ale's when in England or Scotland. It has led me to a lot of good beer and nice pubs.

 

[user 298779]

I've only been to London twice, but I do enjoy all things British, especially if beer is involved. My favorite pub is The Sherlock Holmes Pub, which was a short walk from one of the places I stayed. It sounds touristy (I'm a tourist) but the upstairs restaurant was amazing and the ground floor pub was top-notch. I *may* have over-indulged so take my advice with a grain of salt . I will defer to our home brewers across the pond who may have more extensive experience...

In the last 20-odd years there will have been only one on the bar, unless you caught the one-off release of Stingo in cask a few years ago.



It's taken a real beating from the uncertain trade after the pandemic - publicans don't want lots of a beer with short shelf life in the current environment, so the number on the bar has contracted - although that's not altogether a bad thing, a lot of pubs have tended to go for choice at the expense of turnover and hence quality. So there are signs that it's going to be less of a thing in the mass market and retreat to specialist pubs who look after it properly, and you've had eg Cloudwater taking a fairly no compromises attitude to it - they stopped doing cask altogether at one point, to general uproar, and are now doing it only as a special, pricing it the same as keg (ie a lot more than cask drinkers are used to)



Is that the one off Northumberland Avenue? Cute enough but it's owned by Greene King so I wouldn't hurry in there, and in any case the Harp is two blocks away, one of the great cask pubs in the whole of the UK, so I'm quite happy for the tourists to go elsewhere if it means that it's less of a scrum in the (permanently busy) Harp....

It’s the one on Northumerland (No. 10). We popped in for a pint & burger one day knowing it looked like a tourist trap, but it is cute and we didnt have to wait. Enjoyed it well enough. Gonna do some more research on Green King now that they were mentioned. Seems like a huge conglomerate that’s taken over far too many locals.

Thank‘s to our mates across the pond for giving us a lot more insight.

Cheers

KBW.

 

[RufusBrewer]

I use the "cask finder app" to find pubs near me with good cask ale's when in England or Scotland. It has led me to a lot of good beer and nice pubs.

Excellent Idea.

As the graet Ray Davies said, "Beer that gets pulled up from the wood." (probably paraphrased)

 

[user 298779]

I can see how that might have worked once upon a time, but is probably out of date these days given that many of the generation that are old-but-young-enough-to-work will have picked up their drinking habits since the lager revolution of the mid-70s, so will probably be Carling and Fosters drinkers.

Sam Smiths has some amazing pub buildings in London (notably eg the Louise) but has nothing like the reputation for beer quality that Merchant du Vin has achieved for them in the US, partly because here they are primarily judged on the quality of their cask ales - of which there is only one, and an ordinary bitter at that. They don't get as much credit as they perhaps deserve, but another factor is the boss, Humphrey Smith, who just isn't a very good human being. And given the choice in London in particular, a lot of people here aren't minded to give him their money.

That’s pretty much been my experience in U.K. Really upsets me because the new generations are not realized what great beer is/was like - it’s not trendy, and it’s what their parents and older drink (or drank). Guess they don’t know what they’re missing, not to mention loss of culture.

If I go into a place and the music (non-live) is loud or there’s telly’s on the walls I walk out. I’m more the Cutty Sark atmosphere type (though not my favorite…just came to mind).

Cheers

Tim.

 

[user 298779]

Check out Fuller’s if you can and as far as pubs go I liked The Harp - close-ish to Trafalgar Square. Lots of great cask ale. That was 3 years ago though so hopefully it’s the same. Not sure what their Covid rules are though.

BTW - if you haven’t seen it there’s a good documentary on Fuller’s Brewery on YouTube. Made me yearn to go back there! Correction; it was more than Fuller’s…




Cheers

KBW.

 

[hout17]

I use the "cask finder app" to find pubs near me with good cask ale's when in England or Scotland. It has led me to a lot of good beer and nice pubs.

WWWHHHAATTT there's an app for that?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I recall England's Bass Ale was beautifully superior to what we get in The States.

Well Bass is a rare example of a British beer that's brewed in the US - Newcastle Brown is the other obvious one (and to a completely different recipe in that case). But ABI have never "got" Bass - certainly at one point it didn't even have a brand manager - and they outsourced cask production to Bass' arch-rivals Marston. But it has been returning to cult status a bit, there's now an unofficial listing of pubs that serve cask Bass but it doesn't really figure much in the national conversation about beer, it's astonishing how so much brand equity has been destroyed. It's worth mentioning though that those kinds of classic brown bitters really need to be fresh on cask, they go insipid very quickly.

One top tip, particularly during daytime, is to peer over the bar to see which handpulls have the most beer in their driptrays as a proxy for how much has been served that day, it's a reasonable way to at least ensure you don't get beer that's been overnight in the python.

Also since most pubs are geared to peak service over the weekends, they tend to put fresh casks on for Friday night so that's when the beer will be freshest. Although that doesn't work for eg pubs in the Square Mile, which are geared to weekday drinking and have no trade at weekends.

I use the "cask finder app" to find pubs near me with good cask ale's when in England or Scotland. It has led me to a lot of good beer and nice pubs.

CaskFinder is a Cask Marque thing, so tells you which pubs have made the effort to sign up to the Cask Marque initiative for cask quality and have been inspected. As such it's far from perfect - it will let you avoid the real dives, but probably has more than its fair share of big corporate chain pubs, they like to sign up to Cask Marque as proof of how much they're doing for cask, but it's somewhat performative.

In theory the CAMRA Good Beer Guide (not the paid-for-entry Good Pub Guide) is a much better indicator as it relies on CAMRA members checking in beer quality every time they visit. The reality doesn't quite match that ideal, but GBG pubs should generally have better beer than the average Cask Marque pub.

Gonna do some more research on Green King now that they were mentioned. Seems like a huge conglomerate that’s taken over far too many locals.

Greene King and Marstons are the two biggest "traditional" British brewers left by a distance, so I guess you could say they play a similar role in British beer to eg ABI and Coors, although sizewise they're smaller than Sam Adams. GK really made their name taking over other breweries like Ruddles and Morland and closing them down, whereas Marston tend to keep their takeovers open, and still eg brew at least some of Pedigree in Burton unions, whereas there's a perception that GK are less interested in beer quality. But as you say they've bought a lot of pubs in recent years, which has given them plenty of routes to market - it's depressing how many you see in London these days. GK pubs and brewery were bought by Li Ka-shing's family in 2019, whereas Marston split off its brewing interests into a JV with Carlsberg UK last year, whilst retaining their pub estate.

 

[Broothru]

Check out Fuller’s if you can and as far as pubs go I liked The Harp - close-ish to Trafalgar Square. Lots of great cask ale. That was 3 years ago though so hopefully it’s the same. Not sure what their Covid rules are though.

^^^THIS^^^

If you're staying in Central London you'll likely pass right by the Fuller's on the A4 coming in from Heathrow. It's not too hard to get to on the Underground from downtown, though there is at least one change of trains and may take close to an hour. The times for scheduled tours are a bit random as I recall, but well worth the effort. Call ahead for a reservation as they fill up quickly. The hotel concierge should be able to set you up. Raise a London Pride for me.

 

[Bago-0]

Thanks everyone. Retunring home now and had a great time in London. Most of the pubs are under the Green Kind or Fullers brewery logo. The bartenders told me these pubs are managed by the brewery. There were some non affiliated pubs as well. Did have to go to the Princess Head from the Ted Lasso series. I tried a lot of cask ales. Every pub gad at least 4-6 on tap. I really enjoyed most of them. Took a bit to get used to the warmer temperature but it really did bring out the taste. I was surprise at how many of the locals were drinking Amstel and Peroni. They called the Amstel a "5 and drive beer". The Guinness has a more of a sour taste compared to USA version. The local pubs had typical craft IPA and lagers which were not bad but nothing special.

 

[Brewdog80]

Thanks everyone. Retunring home now and had a great time in London. Most of the pubs are under the Green Kind or Fullers brewery logo. The bartenders told me these pubs are managed by the brewery. There were some non affiliated pubs as well. Did have to go to the Princess Head from the Ted Lasso series. I tried a lot of cask ales. Every pub gad at least 4-6 on tap. I really enjoyed most of them. Took a bit to get used to the warmer temperature but it really did bring out the taste. I was surprise at how many of the locals were drinking Amstel and Peroni. They called the Amstel a "5 and drive beer". The Guinness has a more of a sour taste compared to USA version. The local pubs had typical craft IPA and lagers which were not bad but nothing special.

Glad you had a good time. BTW, you were in England, not Ireland. That Guinness was their ready to dump batches that they sent to the British....

 

[rmr9]

I realize this is a timely thread, I had my first pint of cask ale in London 5 years ago to the day!