LME Question.

[Schnitzengiggle]

Why do so many recipes call for LME opposed to say all DME, I've only brewed 2 "kits" so far from my LHBS, however, they were all DME w/specialty grains. Alot of recipes for extract brews that I've looked up use LME and a small portion of DME. Is this just preference or does it have to do w/color and flavor? I am currently making partial boils and working my equipment up to full boils (need an outdoor cooker and bigger pot) and in the future, given the room, maybe AG. I want my next brew to be more of a recipe than a kit, and from my point of view it looks like it might be cheaper to buy the ingredients seperately instead of a pre-packaged kit. While I am asking question's is there a difference between Cooper's and Breiss DME? My LHBS carries Breiss DME and sells LME (not sure of brand) by the pound.

 

[hcarter]

Well, to answer part of your question, in my experience it has always been cheaper to buy a kit rather than "ala carte" so to speak. You can save money if you buy, say, LME or DME in bulk. Same with AG, buy a 50# sack of 2 row instead of buying say 8# for one recipe.

 

[BioBeing]

It comes down to preference and what is available. There is no basic difference (other than LME contains water (duh) so you have to adjust amounts accordingly if you substitute).

 

[homebrewer_99]

OK, let's clear this one up...a recipe really doesn't call for anything...but it does record what the brewer used...

If a recipe that "calls for" LME then the HBS shouldn't give you DME instead. It will only confuse you (the brewer).

You will learn how and what to substitute the more you brew.

 

[Yooper]

The only time I've had a preference for LME over DME was when I needed a specific thing that wasn't available in DME. For example- pilsner malt extract was only available in LME, so that's what I had to use. Usually, you can find what you want in either DME or LME, so it's a matter of personal preference.

 

[MikeG]

Yeah, I think the primary reason is price, LME is cheaper and it keeps those kit prices more appealing. I have to admit, I prefer the DME but as long as LME isn't hopped I have no big problem using it.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

My LHBS kits use only DME they do sell LME by the #. I've seen many recipes where a brewer will use say 6 lbs LME and then 1 lb DME, and was confused as to why that individual wouldn't just use all LME or DME. I can understand that if he/she had some ingredients lying around and was using what they had to make a recipe, but was curious as to WHY one would actually formulate a recipe that used both (i.e. for a better color or flavor). Just a noob asking a noob question.

 

[ssabin]

There are two reasonable explanations for a kit containing both liquid and dry ME. 1) LME is usually canned in 3-4 lb (or larger!) cans. If a 5 gallon recipe needs more extract for the style, but not another 3.3 lbs, then a pound or two of DME adds the right amount to get the total where it needs to be. 2) Extract flavor and color blending may require a "split" between a light extract and an amber, for instance. Depending on the goal of the recipe, the ratio of the different extract may require a relatively small amount of one style of extract, so DME would be more appropriate. Some will argue that for a given style, LME and DME provide different flavors, so that blend of flavors may be a key to the recipe. Others use LME and DME of the same style of extract interchangeably.

Try a recipe two different ways, changing LME for DME, or vice versa. See which you prefer or if you can tell a difference (adjust the amounts accordingly) That's part of the fun of this hobby you know!

 

[McGarnigle]

My LHBS kits use only DME they do sell LME by the #. I've seen many recipes where a brewer will use say 6 lbs LME and then 1 lb DME, and was confused as to why that individual wouldn't just use all LME or DME. I can understand that if he/she had some ingredients lying around and was using what they had to make a recipe, but was curious as to WHY one would actually formulate a recipe that used both (i.e. for a better color or flavor). Just a noob asking a noob question.

LME is cheaper, but DME comes in smaller quantities. If you need a pound to round out your recipe, it's easier to just add a small bag of DME rather than a part of a can of LME.

Now, there are places that sell fresh LME by the pound so it's probably no big deal to buy 5 lbs. or whatever. But most extract recipes assume it's easiest to acquire LME in 3 (or 3.3) pound increments. So they accommodate.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

Well thanks for your info, I've only brewed w/DME and really have no way to compare w/LME. I think I am going to do a cream stout for my next brew and after that I may jump into PM'ing or do a couple of extracts w/full boil (which I will be getting an outdoor burner and at least a 36qt pot). I'm interested in AG I think all I would need is a MLT after I get the burner and pot, and I can easily DIY a MLT w/a cooler. However, I want to make certain that I have more of an understanding of the overall process before I jump in. Which makes me think I should try a PM.

 

[homebrewer_99]

LME is cheaper, but DME comes in smaller quantities...

Ahem...I buy my DME in 55 lb boxes...

 

[flyangler18]

DME is much more shelf-stable compared to LME. Maillard reactions take place in LME even when sitting at room temperature. Inquire of your LHBS how quickly they turn over bulk extract so you can be assured of the freshness.


To the OP, you've misspelled "Ockham" in your signature line.

 

[Beernip]

Newbie question: Is there a difference in the fermentable/nonfermentable sugars between LME and DME?

 

[ssabin]

Beernip,

I think the answer is, "not really", or at least, "there shouldn't be".

Each extract has its own sometimes secret formula, regardless of whether its LME or DME. A "light" LME from Brand A will be somewhat different than that from Brand B, but you should expect that Brand A's Light LME and DME are very similar in their fermentables/non-fermentables ratio. However, the LMEs are easier to "water-down", especially for house branded items, and it's feasible that many of these have some appreciable corn/other sugar syrups mixed in. I've also read that some commercial DMEs seem to have some corn sugars mixed in as well, despite being labelled as "pure extract".

I guess the real answer is - "it depends on brand". Perhaps some folks have tested this out with certain brands and can vouch for their interchangeability.

 

[Schnitzengiggle]

There are two ways to spell Ockham: Occam's razor, also Ockham's razor, is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar, William of Ockham. The principle states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae ("law of parsimony", "law of economy", or "law of succinctness"): entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, roughly translated as "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity." An alternative version Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate translates "plurality should not be posited without necessity."

When multiple competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selecting the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood.

I lend towards the franciscan friar/logician since, in essence, it was his theory.

 

[BioBeing]

Beernip,

I think the answer is, "not really", or at least, "there shouldn't be".

Each extract has its own sometimes secret formula, regardless of whether its LME or DME. A "light" LME from Brand A will be somewhat different than that from Brand B, but you should expect that Brand A's Light LME and DME are very similar in their fermentables/non-fermentables ratio. However, the LMEs are easier to "water-down", especially for house branded items, and it's feasible that many of these have some appreciable corn/other sugar syrups mixed in. I've also read that some commercial DMEs seem to have some corn sugars mixed in as well, despite being labelled as "pure extract".

I guess the real answer is - "it depends on brand". Perhaps some folks have tested this out with certain brands and can vouch for their interchangeability.

In Designing Great Beer, Daniels goes into this a little bit. Bottom line is there are differences between brands. He suggests doing a small scale ferment with each supplier's extract to see what apparent attenuation you get, and what taste you prefer. Also, LME tends to get darker with storage, moreso than dry. And yes: LME (especially) has been found to contain adjuncts such as corn syrup. Brands were not names, however. [He was citing a Saskatchewan study, IIRC].