Little help with an always-on SSR

[hillhousesawdustco]

Hey all, spent the afternoon putting together version 1.0 of my control panel. So satisfying to see the PID light up and hear that big ole 5500w element churning away in my keggle!

Problem is, it wouldn't turn off without me flipping the 30amp switch off. The PID is reading the PV correctly (via k type), but the SSR isn't flipping OFF when it reaches my set temperature. The little red light on my SSR is ON as the heater reaches my set temperature, and then switches OFF upon getting to that point. However, the leg of the output is still hot. It's always hot whether the SSR light is on or off, according to my handy little electricity detector.

Any ideas of what I'm doing wrong? I'm hoping I just have some PID setting wrong, because that manual is borderline-greek to me.

I did a LITTLE bit of autotuning, but not much: I had the SV at 50 and the water was 180 degrees so I figured it should be smart enough to turn off at that point...right?

 

[Reelale]

This is on page 2, section 3.4.3 for the Auber 2342 PID.

When switching a North American 240VAC power, the heater will be live even when the SSR is off. User should install a double pole mechanical switch to the power input.

 

[hillhousesawdustco]

If it is on all the time then what is the point of an SSR at all?

I figured the double pole switch was to cut off BOTH legs of the 240v mechanically, since I have one that goes through the SSR and one that it is always live (unless the switch is off in which case neither is live). I thought the "heater will be live" statement would be true because of the other, non SSRd leg.

Anybody want to keep steering this dummy towards either an understanding or a solution?

 

[weirdboy]

Yeah I have to question the utility of a SSR if it doesn't actually act like a switch.

HOWEVER many SSRs have a "leakage current" which is usually quite low compared to the "on" state which will continue to flow even when the SSR is ostensibly off. Is this what you are seeing?

 

[hillhousesawdustco]

Good question...I've just been using one of those home depotish testers that you put up against the wire it and flashes lights and buzzes at you if current is flowing (to keep me from frying my brains and my damned SSR). They are made to detect 120v, but I don't know what their range is. I know they cannot detect 12v. May have to break out the multimeter.

Regardless of leakage current, the element itself seems to be going FULL BLAST, so I really think that the SSR isn't cutting off that leg. If there WAS leakage current...what would that do to the element? Would it run at some percentage or another of its total wattage as the leakage current and the live leg completed the 240v circuit?

Thanks for the help ya'll.

 

[P-J]

Power it down and pull the plug. Open your controller and remove both signal wires going to your SSR. (be sure to tape them or isolate them) Close it up and power up.

Now with that done, is your element still heating? If so, the SSR is bad.

.

P-J

 

[Reelale]

If it is on all the time then what is the point of an SSR at all?

I figured the double pole switch was to cut off BOTH legs of the 240v mechanically, since I have one that goes through the SSR and one that it is always live (unless the switch is off in which case neither is live). I thought the "heater will be live" statement would be true because of the other, non SSRd leg.

Anybody want to keep steering this dummy towards either an understanding or a solution?

I misread your post. I didn't realize you were talking about the SSR output. Sorry. No help here, as I use a 110VAC set-up. But it sounds like a bad SSR.

 

[weirdboy]

ent itself seems to be going FULL BLAST, so I really think that the SSR isn't cutting off that leg. If there WAS leakage current...what would that do to the element? Would it run at some percentage or another of its total wattage as the leakage current and the live leg completed the 240v circuit?

Well an element is just a big resistor, so yes sorta...except the leakage current is usually something like 5-20mA, not NEARLY enough to heat up anything.

I agree if you are still getting "full blast" then either it is wired incorrectly, or your SSR is bad. I would also suggest that rather than using one of those HD circuit/continuity testers, that you instead use an actual multimeter. They are cheap, and you will get a lot better information about what is going on than a couple of blinking lights.

 

[samc]

Power it down and pull the plug. Open your controller and remove both signal wires going to your SSR. (be sure to tape them or isolate them) Close it up and power up.

Now with that done, is your element still heating? If so, the SSR is bad.

.

P-J

Just to emphasize what P-J said! That is the easiest way to know. The SSR is bad if it still heats unless you did some really screwy wiring job.

 

[P-J]

Just to emphasize what P-J said! That is the easiest way to know. The SSR is bad if it still heats unless you did some really screwy wiring job.

You have no idea how much your post made me smile.

Thanks!

One cannot defy logic. No?

P-J

 

[hillhousesawdustco]

I don't think the wiring is too screwy, as I ripped it off of PJs diagrams just like everybody else on this board. I tried unhooking the control wires and the element continued to blaze away, so I reckon the SSR was bad. Bummer it was brand new, but I happened to have another on hand and it is working perfectly now that it is hooked up. I guess I was a little surprised that the indicator light on the SSR was working perfectly but it was stuck in the "on" position all the same. Oh well.

As far as multimeter vs el-cheapo-electrowand, obviously the multimeter is a lot more useful, but I actually really like the wand- just stick it anywhere near juice and it will tell you if it is hot or not instantly, no need to complete a circuit. I think they're pretty handy for being absolutely sure that you aren't going to be electrocuted- I always test it on something I KNOW is hot first.

Also, I defy logic all the time. Take that, logic. Not saying it works out, but it happens.

Thanks for the help.

 

[P-J]

I don't think the wiring is too screwy, as I ripped it off of PJs diagrams just like everybody else on this board. I tried unhooking the control wires and the element continued to blaze away, so I reckon the SSR was bad. Bummer it was brand new, but I happened to have another on hand and it is working perfectly now that it is hooked up. I guess I was a little surprised that the indicator light on the SSR was working perfectly but it was stuck in the "on" position all the same. Oh well.
...
Thanks for the help.

I'm really pleased that you found the problem and got it resolved.
BTW: You did not rip off my diagrams. I draw them to help members setting up electric brew controllers. I post them here. hopefully, for the benefit of anyone contemplating going electric. I will continue doing that as long as someone want a special setup for their needs and vision.

Congrats! And I'm glad that you got it going.

P-J

 

[Poobah58]

Stupid question: Is the PID in Auto???