List of PJ Electrical Diagrams

[itsnotrequired]

Gotcha - I went with the 3 wire 240V inline gfci... I was hoping for feedback on the attachment (see below).. after I got the connectors, a buddy said why not redo it so that you only need 2 power inputs instead of 3.

View attachment 302519

how are you deriving the 120v power for the receptacles? or are you bringing in 120v from a a circuit other than the 'main' 240v?

EDIT: looking closer, they must be separate circuits. is it your intent to use actual receptacles in your setup? or did you simply use the receptacle symbol for convenience on your diagram?

regarding the two sources vs three, i presume you mean a single 120v source and a single 240v source? if combining the 120v sources, you would need a 20 amp circuit and need to program the controller such that only one of the 2000 watt elements can fire at a time. if you want to fire both at once, you would need a 40 amp circuit.

also, you could get by with a cheaper 25 amp ssr on the 2000 watt elements (you don't need 50 watt). no problem with using 50 amp though...

 

[chiefwigms]

how are you deriving the 120v power for the receptacles? or are you bringing in 120v from a a circuit other than the 'main' 240v?

EDIT: looking closer, they must be separate circuits. is it your intent to use actual receptacles in your setup? or did you simply use the receptacle symbol for convenience on your diagram?

regarding the two sources vs three, i presume you mean a single 120v source and a single 240v source? if combining the 120v sources, you would need a 20 amp circuit and need to program the controller such that only one of the 2000 watt elements can fire at a time. if you want to fire both at once, you would need a 40 amp circuit.

also, you could get by with a cheaper 25 amp ssr on the 2000 watt elements (you don't need 50 watt). no problem with using 50 amp though...

So I'll be doing a eBIAB setup with either 1 element @ 240V (I'll still need a 120V line to power the controller), or 2 elements @ 120V (separate 20A lines, one still powering the controller)

After I ordered all the parts, my buddy said to try to isolate the 240V setup so that if I was in a 2x120V config, I could still run 120V through that

 

[itsnotrequired]

So I'll be doing a eBIAB setup with either 1 element @ 240V (I'll still need a 120V line to power the controller), or 2 elements @ 120V (separate 20A lines, one still powering the controller)

After I ordered all the parts, my buddy said to try to isolate the 240V setup so that if I was in a 2x120V config, I could still run 120V through that

so if i understand correctly, your diagram shows both options (single 240v element or dual 120v) but in reality, you'll only wire it up one way or the other. if correct, a couple things to keep in mind:

- be careful with two separate supply circuits into a single enclosure. if it is something only you will be using, probably not that big a deal but if someone else might 'mess' with your system, you'll want to put up a warning sign or similar letting folks know there is more than one supply source into the enclosure, with indication where the circuits are sourced from.

- how will you be connecting the source 120v? with receptacles? hard wired? if using cords/receptacles, make sure it is configured such that you can never have exposed, energized blades.

 

[chiefwigms]

so if i understand correctly, your diagram shows both options (single 240v element or dual 120v) but in reality, you'll only wire it up one way or the other. if correct, a couple things to keep in mind:

- be careful with two separate supply circuits into a single enclosure. if it is something only you will be using, probably not that big a deal but if someone else might 'mess' with your system, you'll want to put up a warning sign or similar letting folks know there is more than one supply source into the enclosure, with indication where the circuits are sourced from.

- how will you be connecting the source 120v? with receptacles? hard wired? if using cords/receptacles, make sure it is configured such that you can never have exposed, energized blades.

i have neutrik connectors for both sides - the 120V ends are blades, but I'll be putting shrink wrapped crimps on them.

 

[mrwizard0]

I jaw saw this. I dont think it is in this thread I will look for it when I get home and add it

 

[Bigfish713]

I am trying to find a control panel that is not crazy expensive. Here is my plan I am going to convert my keggle to a hlt with a 5500w element continue to use my cooler with manifold as my mash tun and purchase a new boil kettle with another 5500w elements. I also would like to use a pump. I would like to stay around $500 for the controller I found this one in another thread

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1445218286.726823.jpg

I just don't know if this would work for what I am wanting to do. Any idea on a cost for this controller build. I planed on pulling power from my kitchen stove it has a 30a breaker. I don't have a electric dryer plug mine is gas. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Not sure witch of P-Js drawing I would need to use

 

[Clankenbrew]

Sorry but I cannot identify the drawing. The image you posted is way too small for me to read the ID info I add to the bottom right of the diagram. You would have been better off linking my original so that I (and others) could see it.

Also -

I think that is backwards.. Dont know as I cannot review the diagram. If what you say is true, I made an error drawing it. Please help me help you.



BTW: 14g wire is not the problem. It is more than enough to carry the current needed for both functions.





P-J

Pj.. I blew out an SSR ang PID. Can't read the SSR label. Can you see it? Send me the part number?
Thanks

 

[Clankenbrew]

Can anyone read the part numbers on the SSR in this drawing? View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1447687673.680913.jpg

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

its a 40 amp ssr, similar to this

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30

 

[Clankenbrew]

That's the one I'm ordering.. Wasn't sure if DC input was right..

 

[Rivenin]

That's the one I'm ordering.. Wasn't sure if DC input was right..

yep, DC would be correct, most if not all PIDS in this spectrum only sent out DC signal.

 

[J311gonzo]

I am having trouble locating a 1 PID 2 5500 watt element EBIAB diagram. I believe I originally saw it in this thread... can anyone help me find it? thanks!:rockin:

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

the second one down is similar to what you describe
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=382286

 

[J311gonzo]

the second one down is similar to what you describe
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=382286

Actually thats not going to work. I need 1 PID that can run both elements at the same time since both will be inside the same vessle. That one will only allow power to one element at a time. thanks though.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

are you looking for the layout for 2 - 115v or 2 - 240v elements, your going to need a 50 amp service, 2- 40 amp ssrs wired in parallel or 1- 60 amp and the correct rated contact switch for 2 - 240 elements wired together

 

[doug293cz]

Actually thats not going to work. I need 1 PID that can run both elements at the same time since both will be inside the same vessle. That one will only allow power to one element at a time. thanks though.

Just wire both elements in parallel to one SSR connected to the PID. The SSR has to be rated to handle twice as much current as for a single element.

Brew on

 

[jblockbrew]

Question on pid control. I am using a design similar to the 30 a single element pid and when the pid is showing no power out, I am still getting power to the element. I have also checked this with a voltage meter and it reads 240. Any suggestions on what is causing this? Have gained a lot of knowledge from this forum, just can't figure this one out. Any help would be appreciated. 

 

[schematix]

Question on pid control. I am using a design similar to the 30 a single element pid and when the pid is showing no power out, I am still getting power to the element. I have also checked this with a voltage meter and it reads 240. Any suggestions on what is causing this? Have gained a lot of knowledge from this forum, just can't figure this one out. Any help would be appreciated. 

It is normal for a solid state relay output to have voltage even when "off". However, no current should be flowing (if it is, your relay is defective). Is your element heating up?

 

[jblockbrew]

It is normal for a solid state relay output to have voltage even when "off". However, no current should be flowing (if it is, your relay is defective). Is your element heating up?

Yes. The element is heating up. Ordering a new ssr now and will update after installing. Thank you for the response.

 

[jblockbrew]

.

 

[jerryk]

I would like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread, it has been very helpful and I hope it will continue to be.
I am building a 3 kettle RIMS system with 2 pumps. The elements are 240V 3750W 16A HLT PID Control, 240V 3500W 15A RIMS PID Control, and 240V 5000W 21A Boil Kettle Rheostat Control through a SSVR. I also want to incorporate an On OFF Keyed master switch, E-Stop, and a three position rotary switch to switch between the HLT and BK with the middle position being off.
I am trying to pull different parts from different diagrams. I am just trying to figure out if I am on the right track. Also, if anyone has suggestions about my plan from their experiences. I am going to complete my box from the diagrams below. The first diagram is going to be my primary and I am going to incorporate the items not included in it from the other diagrams. I am going to remove the timer.

I’m going to use the rheostat portion from the second diagram in place of the PID control for the Boil Kettle portion in the first diagram.

I’m going to use the Key master switch from the third diagram in the first.

 

[stever1000]

If the diagram has a total of 4 fuses, I assume I can use 4 individual panel mounted fuse holders with the appropriate sized fuse? Some of the diagrams have 3-4+ so I just want to confirm before I buy enough holders from China...

I havent seen this asked yet, but I haven't gone through all the pages yet...

Thanks!

 

[btbonser]

For some reason I can't delete this message

 

[btbonser]

I was looking for a drawing similar to Kal's electric brewery but I couldn't find one. A couple were close, so I took 3 different PT drawings and mashed them together.
I was going to include an alarm switch in the mash PID, but did'nt have room. I'm pretty sure it's correct, but this is where I add legal ease fine print.

Edit: I updated drawing to include four alarm switches

This looks very similar to what I will be doing. Has anyone vetted or used this diagram?

 

[kal]

This looks very similar to what I will be doing. Has anyone vetted or used this diagram?

I know this has been covered ad-nauseam in multiple threads, but I will again state (as would any engineer running a UL certified panel shop) that implementing an e-stop by shorting a HOT line to ground (through a resistor to limit current or not) in the way that's been here is not a safe way to do it.

If you do want an e-stop, spend the extra $20 and have the e-stop switch disengage the two HOT lines through a contactor or relay. Use a normally open contactor and the e-stop switch hold the contactor closed while it's pulled out. That's safe.

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

I know this has been covered ad-nauseam in multiple threads, but I will again state (as would any engineer running a UL certified panel shop) that implementing an e-stop by shorting a HOT line to ground (through a resistor to limit current or not) in the way that's been here is not a safe.

If you do want an e-stop, spend the extra $20 and have the e-stop switch disengage the two HOT lines through a contactor or relay. Use a normally open contactor and the e-stop switch hold the contactor closed while it's pulled out. That's safe.

Kal

i've been thinking about this quite a bit and have yet to come up with a 'smoking gun' that the gfci e-stop method is a code violation or a use of equipment outside of its listing. i'm in the camp of using a contactor instead of a gfci trip but i can't find a fault (ha ha) in the gfci e-stop method, other than my own prejudices.

 

[kal]

i've been thinking about this quite a bit and have yet to come up with a 'smoking gun' that the gfci e-stop method is a code violation or a use of equipment outside of its listing. i'm in the camp of using a contactor instead of a gfci trip but i can't find a fault (ha ha) in the gfci e-stop method, other than my own prejudices.

I'm not a UL code expert but some things come to mind (just going with a common sense approach): You shouldn't purposely shunt current to ground. Ground's there for safety, not for functional use. It also won't work right if the upstream breaker isn't GFI. Building equipment (like a panel like this) that makes the assumption that it has to be GFI projected to work right isn't good. Next time I talk to a UL shop I'll ask for the specifics...

Kal

 

[itsnotrequired]

I'm not a UL code expert but some things come to mind (just going with a common sense approach): You shouldn't purposely shunt current to ground. Ground's there for safety, not for functional use. It also won't work right if the upstream breaker isn't GFI. Building equipment (like a panel like this) that makes the assumption that it has to be GFI projected to work right isn't good. Next time I talk to a UL shop I'll ask for the specifics...

Kal

and that's my hangup, the idea of 'purposely' introducing one hazard to mitigate another hazard. it doesn't make sense and in the industrial world there are other means to accomplish the same thing but i can't for the life of me can't find a code section which prohibits the gfci e-stop approach.

 

[jeffmeh]

and that's my hangup, the idea of 'purposely' introducing one hazard to mitigate another hazard. it doesn't make sense and in the industrial world there are other means to accomplish the same thing but i can't for the life of me can't find a code section which prohibits the gfci e-stop approach.

IMO, the biggest danger is that when the GFCI fails, you have no estop, and you may not know it.

 

[jerryk]

I know this has been covered ad-nauseam in multiple threads, but I will again state (as would any engineer running a UL certified panel shop) that implementing an e-stop by shorting a HOT line to ground (through a resistor to limit current or not) in the way that's been here is not a safe way to do it.

If you do want an e-stop, spend the extra $20 and have the e-stop switch disengage the two HOT lines through a contactor or relay. Use a normally open contactor and the e-stop switch hold the contactor closed while it's pulled out. That's safe.

Kal

I prefer this method for the E-Stop and like the fact that it is a separate way to shut it off if needed other than relying on the breaker. One question, would you use the e-stop as a master switch or should I still instal a keyed switch?