List of PJ Electrical Diagrams

[kal]

I prefer this method for the E-Stop and like the fact that it is a separate way to shut it off if needed other than relying on the breaker. One question, would you use the e-stop as a master switch or should I still instal a keyed switch?

I go in the other direction: I don't think an e-stop's needed on a panel to begin with (otherwise I would have installed one). I think an on/off switch is fine. I keyed my on/off switch for added safety but it's not required. Depends on the location/situation.

Kal

 

[Trillium]

I didn't bother to put an E-stop on my panel. I didn't see the point since I already have an off switch for the elements, and another for the main power.

 

[itsnotrequired]

IMO, the biggest danger is that when the GFCI fails, you have no estop, and you may not know it.

it is my understanding that if the gfci circuitry fails, the breaker trips and cannot be reset. it won't work at all. regarding the contactor approach, the contacts can weld and won't work on an e-stop press. no way to know either. contact welding is pretty rare though.

to have a 'true' safe e-stop circuit, the panel would need redundant positively-driven contactors with circuit monitoring and fail-safe wiring. those safety-rated contactors are prohibitively expensive and really aren't practical for a home brew panel.

 

[IrieElephant]

Hello all, I am in process of trying to rebuild my propane brewing system and move it on over to e-brewing... I am horrible with electrical theory, but can read diagrams fairly well... Really what I'd like to make happen is something like Nostalgia's control panel that P-J gave him some suggestions on, with only just a couple subtle differences... Is there anyone out there who can hook a brother up with a nice, easy to follow diagram?

 

[doug293cz]

Hello all, I am in process of trying to rebuild my propane brewing system and move it on over to e-brewing... I am horrible with electrical theory, but can read diagrams fairly well... Really what I'd like to make happen is something like Nostalgia's control panel that P-J gave him some suggestions on, with only just a couple subtle differences... Is there anyone out there who can hook a brother up with a nice, easy to follow diagram?

Tell me what you want that's different, and I'll try to put something together for you.

Brew on

 

[IrieElephant]

Tell me what you want that's different, and I'll try to put something together for you.

Brew on

Excellent, thank you very much!

So basically this is what I'd like to build, I have a HERMS coil already plumbed into my HLT, but I'd still like to have the third PID in the center, just for closer monitoring of temps in my Mash tun.

On the backside of this one he has four outlets turned on and off by the four bottom switches on the front panel. I would have two outlets with front switches for my pumps, and then a single 110v/double usb outlet controlled by the third front switch, that way I could use my phone for timer and music while keeping it charged and also run my "El Cheapo" vent hood.

I wouldn't want that big honking red switch on top either, so the fourth front switch would be replaced with a keyed master on/off.

I'd also leave the lighted kill switches for the elements as they are. Does all that make sense?

View attachment 1450965393747.jpg

 

[BrunDog]

I missed the Estop discussion but have voiced my opinion (negative) on this approach. Common sense, purposely faulting for safety, etc. are all accurate. I don't think this would be in the code because the code writers would never expect someone to do it!!

 

[doug293cz]

Excellent, thank you very much!

So basically this is what I'd like to build, I have a HERMS coil already plumbed into my HLT, but I'd still like to have the third PID in the center, just for closer monitoring of temps in my Mash tun.

On the backside of this one he has four outlets turned on and off by the four bottom switches on the front panel. I would have two outlets with front switches for my pumps, and then a single 110v/double usb outlet controlled by the third front switch, that way I could use my phone for timer and music while keeping it charged and also run my "El Cheapo" vent hood.

I wouldn't want that big honking red switch on top either, so the fourth front switch would be replaced with a keyed master on/off.

I'd also leave the lighted kill switches for the elements as they are. Does all that make sense?

Ok, let me make sure I have all the details correct, and ask some additional questions. You want the following:

• Two heating elements, one for HLT and one for boil ketlle?
  • HLT element power?
  • BK element power?
  • Do both elements need to be on at same time (for back to back brews)?
• Three PID's, HLT, MLT, BK?
  • One for HLT driving SSR for element?
  • One for MLT, no SSR, monitoring only?
  • One for BK driving SSR for element?
• Key operated main power switch?
• No EPO (emergency power off) switch?
• Two switched 120V pump outlets?
• One switched 120V duplex outlet?
• Safety devices?
  • GFCI protection is assumed external to controller.
  • Individual circuit breakers for each element (if not you will need to use heavier wiring if both elements need to be on at once)?
  • Fuses for PID's, & outlets are assumed. Breakers preferred?
• Any interlocks?
  • "Safe start" (main power won't come on unless all other switches off)?,
  • Float switches to prevent dry firing the elements?
  • "Panel door open" power off?
  • Other interlocks?

 

[IrieElephant]

Ok, let me make sure I have all the details correct, and ask some additional questions. You want the following:

• Two heating elements, one for HLT and one for boil ketlle?
  • HLT element power?
  • BK element power?
  • Do both elements need to be on at same time (for back to back brews)?
• Three PID's, HLT, MLT, BK?
  • One for HLT driving SSR for element?
  • One for MLT, no SSR, monitoring only?
  • One for BK driving SSR for element?
• Key operated main power switch?
• No EPO (emergency power off) switch?
• Two switched 120V pump outlets?
• One switched 120V duplex outlet?
• Safety devices?
  • GFCI protection is assumed external to controller.
  • Individual circuit breakers for each element (if not you will need to use heavier wiring if both elements need to be on at once)?
  • Fuses for PID's, & outlets are assumed. Breakers preferred?
• Any interlocks?
  • "Safe start" (main power won't come on unless all other switches off)?,
  • Float switches to prevent dry firing the elements?
  • "Panel door open" power off?
  • Other interlocks?

First Doug, please accept my sincerest gratitude for spending time on Christmas trying to help me out, it is very, very much appreciated!

So yes, 2 elements, one in HLT and one in BK. Power switches for each. And preferably the ability to have both firing at the same time for back to back batches.

Three PIDs one controlling an SSR for the HLT element, one specifically for monitoring of MLT temps, not controlling anything, and one controlling an SSR for the BK. 120 VAC case fan for additional cooling of SSRs.

Key operated main power switch, no E-stop, one duplex with individually switched outlets for pumps, one duplex with both outlets powered from a single switch.

No particular safety devices. The system will draw power from a 60 amp GFCI in my Main panel fed to a 60 amp spa panel in the brewery area.

Internal breakers for each element, and internal breakers for 110/120 VAC components. Panel mount fuses for PIDs. No interlocks or other safety devices, just the basics lol

A good diagram of how each component attaches to the next and perhaps suggestions of best parts to go with will get me rocking and rolling! Again, I am incredibly thankful for your help with this.

 

[kal]

IrieElephant: This sounds nearly identical to my 50A back to back design that many have build. I have pictures and wiring diagrams available here.

Good luck!

Kal

 

[daveMN]

Does anybody (or P-J, if you're still following this thread ) know what software was used to make these diagrams? Looking back at this thread, I can't find any reference to what software was used. Thanks!

 

[cod3ck]

Does anybody (or P-J, if you're still following this thread ) know what software was used to make these diagrams? Looking back at this thread, I can't find any reference to what software was used. Thanks!

I remember seeing someone say Vizio somewhere... Any Mac users out there know of a good app to do this same thing?

 

[thekraken]

I remember seeing someone say Vizio somewhere... Any Mac users out there know of a good app to do this same thing?

I'm sure there is more appropriate software out there but Inkscape got the job done for me.

https://inkscape.org/en/

 

[IrieElephant]

IrieElephant: This sounds nearly identical to my 50A back to back design that many have build. I have pictures and wiring diagrams available here.

Good luck!

Kal

Hey Kal, your build was the first of these that I came across, and it truly is what inspired me to go electric, problem is I have built it twice now and just can't seem to get it right... I had my neighbor (an electrician) check and double check my work, but we can't seem to find the problem. Then I built it again using the e-brew panel on the cheap instructable, and still couldn't get it right... So, going to give it another go with a bit of a different layout and hope for the best this time.

 

[daveMN]

I remember seeing someone say Vizio somewhere... Any Mac users out there know of a good app to do this same thing?

I have Visio, so I can give that a try. Seems like that would work. Thanks!

 

[doug293cz]

First Doug, please accept my sincerest gratitude for spending time on Christmas trying to help me out, it is very, very much appreciated!

So yes, 2 elements, one in HLT and one in BK. Power switches for each. And preferably the ability to have both firing at the same time for back to back batches.

Three PIDs one controlling an SSR for the HLT element, one specifically for monitoring of MLT temps, not controlling anything, and one controlling an SSR for the BK. 120 VAC case fan for additional cooling of SSRs.

Key operated main power switch, no E-stop, one duplex with individually switched outlets for pumps, one duplex with both outlets powered from a single switch.

No particular safety devices. The system will draw power from a 60 amp GFCI in my Main panel fed to a 60 amp spa panel in the brewery area.

Internal breakers for each element, and internal breakers for 110/120 VAC components. Panel mount fuses for PIDs. No interlocks or other safety devices, just the basics lol

A good diagram of how each component attaches to the next and perhaps suggestions of best parts to go with will get me rocking and rolling! Again, I am incredibly thankful for your help with this.

Ok, this should be close to what you are looking for. For a 60 A service, you'll need to feed it with 4 AWG wire, as 6 AWG is only rated for 55 A. On the load side of the 30 A breakers you can use 10 AWG. The load side of the 10 A breakers can use 16 or 18 AWG. After the 1 A fuses, you can use down to 22 AWG if you want.



Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[IrieElephant]

Ok, this should be close to what you are looking for. For a 60 A service, you'll need to feed it with 4 AWG wire, as 6 AWG is only rated for 55 A. On the load side of the 30 A breakers you can use 10 AWG. The load side of the 10 A breakers can use 16 or 18 AWG. After the 1 A fuses, you can use down to 22 AWG if you want.

View attachment 326197

Let me know if you have any questions.

That is a work of art! Thanks again Doug, it looks fantastic.

 

[fo0isclay]

So, I've spent considerable time designing my 50a 3 vessel HERMS system, utilizing ebrewsupply.com, electricbrewery.com, these message boards, electricans I work with, etc. all as resources. I think I've got a pretty rock solid design, but want to get some outside perspective on my wiring diagram. Does anybody see any serious or danger design flaws with my diagram? Are there any other forums I should be posting in? Thanks in advance y'all.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8iuS9F-2IT9OUR2Rm9yS3drMG8/view?usp=sharing

 

[btbonser]

I was curious if someone with more knowledge than I have would be so kind as to review my wiring diagram.

Thanks,

 

[doug293cz]

I'd put a 10A Slo-Blo fuse in the pump circuit so you could wire the pump outlets with 16AWG wire instead of 10AWG. But if you wire the pump outlets with 10AWG, it's ok as is.

Switch #4 is labeled as temp alarm disable, but is actually wired as a timer alarm disable.

As drawn, the switch controlling the main power contactor should be wired with 10AWG wire. By placing a 1 A fuse before the hot line going to the switch, you could wire it with finer, easier to work with, wire.

Other than that, I don't see any problems with the design.

Brew on

 

[MT2sum]

Does anyone know of some circuit diagrams that use STC1000's and electromechanical relays? I'm on a super-tight budget, don't need a lot of whistles, bells, and buzzers, and have some of the parts already.
my STCs are 220v.
I'm just looking for some diagrams to give me ideas so I can use/butcher/modify them for my own use. I'm presently using some from PJs collection, and have done some extensive white-out work to make them close to what I want.
Maybe if I had a small diagram of how an electromechanical relay is wired into the system between the 240v output of the STC and the 4500W element, that would suffice. I think I've got everything else just the way I want it.
TIA

 

[ajdelange]

If I understand the question:

Line1 --->HtrA--->HtrB--->ContactorA---->ContactorB---->Line2

Line1---->STC1000A----->STC100B---->ContactorCoilA----->ContactorCoilB---->Line2

Hope that's clear.

 

[MT2sum]

If I understand the question:

Line1 --->HtrA--->HtrB--->ContactorA---->ContactorB---->Line2

Line1---->STC1000A----->STC100B---->ContactorCoilA----->ContactorCoilB---->Line2

Hope that's clear.

Nope, didn't help me a bit (I know, I'm a dummy!) -
The way I understand contactors and relays is; IF I run a 12v line to the coil, that actuates the relay (NO to NC). IF I run 240v (L1 & L2) to one side of the relay and run the corresponding wires to the heating element (L1 & L2) on the other side of the relay, when the coil is actuated by applying 12v, the contacts in the relay go from NO to NC, so I will then have 240v power going across the relay to the elements. This is how I understand them to work - is this what you meant by the above explanation?
TIA

 

[TheMerkle]

I just have two questions:

1. Would it be possible to replace the glass bulb fuses with automotive blade fuses?

2. Can the 1 amp fuses in the first diagram listed be safely replaced with 2 amp fuses?

 

[doug293cz]

I just have two questions:

1. Would it be possible to replace the glass bulb fuses with automotive blade fuses?

2. Can the 1 amp fuses in the first diagram listed be safely replaced with 2 amp fuses?

Most automotive blade fuses are rated for 32V or 58V (I didn't find any higher ratings on a very short search), so these should not be used in 120V or 240V applications. What's the attraction of using those vs. the cylindrical glass fuses?

For the second question, I'm going to give a snarky answer: If you don't know how to determine acceptable fuse ratings, you shouldn't be considering altering the fuse ratings in someone else's design. Doing so makes you the designer.

Brew on

 

[TheMerkle]

My motivations for substitutions are purely selfish: I have them on hand. Thank you very much for your reaponse, snarky or otherwise.

 

[MT2sum]

Most automotive blade fuses are rated for 32V or 58V (I didn't find any higher ratings on a very short search), so these should not be used in 120V or 240V applications.
Brew on

I don't mean to be intrusive here, but there are 1 amp glass fuses with a 250v rating - They've been in the automotive industry for many years - as far back as I can remember anyway ;>). The car and the truck I drive use them!

For eight decades, LIlttelfuse has been developing industry-leading circuit protection products by working closely with their customers. These unique partnerships have led to such innovations as the first small, fast-acting protective fuse in 1927, the first automotive blade fuses and the world's smallest SIDACtor® device.

Littelfuse solutions can be found in virtually every product that requires electrical energy, from automobiles to computers to telecom devices. By combining their extensive product line with the knowledge of their application experts, Littelfuse has the unique ability to evaluate customer needs and deliver the right solution.

See here

This is just an example, not a complete list of suppliers. I'd prefer to use these in my control box because when they 'blow out' (open), it's usually very visible, and the cost isn't prohibitive - less than 5 bucks for five of them. I'd see if you can find them in the local auto parts stores and not have to pay for shipping.

 

[doug293cz]

I don't mean to be intrusive here, but there are 1 amp glass fuses with a 250v rating - They've been in the automotive industry for many years - as far back as I can remember anyway ;>). The car and the truck I drive use them!


See here

This is just an example, not a complete list of suppliers. I'd prefer to use these in my control box because when they 'blow out' (open), it's usually very visible, and the cost isn't prohibitive - less than 5 bucks for five of them. I'd see if you can find them in the local auto parts stores and not have to pay for shipping.

You are confused. The question I answered was about substituting plastic body blade fuses for the tubular glass body cartridge fuses (the type specified by P-J.) The blade fuses are the ones with the low voltage rating, which should not be used in 120V or 240V AC applications. The glass cartridge fuses are suitable.

Brew on

 

[jsguitar]

.

 

[MT2sum]

You are confused. The question I answered was about substituting plastic body blade fuses for the tubular glass body cartridge fuses (the type specified by P-J.) The blade fuses are the ones with the low voltage rating, which should not be used in 120V or 240V AC applications. The glass cartridge fuses are suitable.

Brew on

No, not confused, just from the wrong generation ! In my youth, we always called the glass fuses 'blade' fuses becuz of the 'blade' inside! Sorry about intruding. Everything I drive is pre-'blade' plastic fuses.
If you will note, there are also glass fuses that are only rated for 32v (and probably 58v), but I had thought you were referring to glass ones rather than plastic ones. Next time I'll stay out of it ;>)!