Liquid yeast, how do you use it safely?

[Schmitz]

I'm on my 8th batch but I have never used liquid yeast.

According to the bottle it says to pull it from the fridge and let it sit 3 to 6 hours before use, then just drop it in your 70 75 degree wort.

Easy enough, but I had 2 questions.

1) What happens if I use it at about the 2hour mark. It may not be quite to room temperature. Would this retard fermantation in any way? Is this a sound idea, what are the draw backs.

2) Starters. I see others using a 24hr yeast starter. Does it matter?

My problem is when I want to brew I want to brew now, not 5 hours from now. And while Im a patience guy, I think I suffer from the dry yeast syndrome. Its so damn convenient. I like to be spontaneous. Start my wort and finish with it in the carboy 2 hours later.

I do want to use it (have extra dry yeast) while I have it, but I'm curious what you guys do with liquid yeast.

for note: Its white labs english ale yeast #wlp002.

Thanks for any help.

 

[user 574]

3-6 hours is overkill IMO. They basically just want it at room temperature. Depending on the strain however (which # who knows) it might starting foaming up if you open it after it has gotten to room temp. I've gotten sprayed in the face before . I typically will open slightly right out of the fridge to give it some breathing room & toss a sanitized paper towel over it to be sure.

Starters - yes better to do one and you'll no doubt do them eventually at some point. Required? No. Better & faster ferment if you do? Yes. Also makes sure your yeast is healthy.

Then at some point you'll start wondering on the expense of liquid yeast and read threads here on saving yeast. You'll probably embark down that path later as well. Using liq yeast takes you a level up in the quality of your beverage. One step at at time; that's how most of us progress.

 

[david_42]

Take the yeast out of the fridge and set the tube in a bowl of warm (~70F) water before you start brewing and pitch it when you're ready to pitch it. All it means is a slower start.

Did my first starter this week after five years of brewing. I only did it because it was also the first time I've tried washing & saving yeast. Had my backup Nottingham in the fridge, but the ferment is going fine.

 

[user 574]

Oh yea, shake well after it warms up (tightening the cap of course)

 

[anthrobe]

I have only used liquid yeast. I take it out of the fridge when I start brewing and pitch it when the wort is at temp. Usually takes about 10 hours to see any action in the carboy. So far I have never had a bad batch yet. This next batch I will be trying my first starter.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Did my first starter this week after five years of brewing. I only did it because it was also the first time I've tried washing & saving yeast. Had my backup Nottingham in the fridge, but the ferment is going fine.

Glad to hear it. How's the washing going for you?

 

[Tony]

I have moved to using 1500ml starters only. I also have changed over to White Labs only, and have been very happy (my preference only). I take mine out of the fridge a day or so before brewing. After it warms up to suggested pitching tempersture, I boil up my water, DME, yeast nutrient and stir bar for 15 to 20 minutes, then cool it down with an ice bath, pitch my vial and put it on the stir plate for up to 2 days. White Labs states 2-3 days on a starter with their product is normal. So far this method has done me right, and shown activity within a few hours. And, a blow off set up is a must for me now.

But, I have to say, I used to use dry yeast with success when I first started brewing, and hydrated it when I began to boil my wort. The ferments were slow, but were sucessful. I also used "Slap Packs" and had sucess as well.

Which ever yeast you use, find what works best for you, and stick to it.

 

[ScottT]

Is a starter required to brew, no. Is a starter required to make a really good beer, YES!

Do you want your beer to be the best it can possibly be or are you just wanting to brew some swill to get a buzz from. (I'm seeing more and more of this trend on the boards these days)

If you want to brew a really good beer, one that you are proud of, then PLAN and Do the Starter.

Yea, you can make a spontanious brew but you might as well just use a dry yeast. IMO a liquid yeast is only worth the expense if you are trying to create something special. An if your are after that then do a starter.

 

[ScottT]

BTW, I made a starter this morning for a batch that I'm brewing on Friday.

I did 500ml in a 1000ml flask and will step it up in the morning, adding some more wort.

 

[Tony]

Watcha brewin on Friday??????

 

[ScottT]

Watcha brewin on Friday??????

An Oatmeal Stout.

 

[Thor]

This is a great discussion on a topic with which I have interest but confusion. A starter is basically yeast in wort (DME/LME+water+hops+yeast), correct? If so, why is there an advantage in adding yeast to a small mini-wort (the starter), food for said yeast, vs. directly to a large source of food for the yeast, the entire wort (example - 5 gallons)?

A confused but eager learner...

 

[croba50]

i have not yet done a starter
but have been told that doing a starter preps the yeast for the wort.
in return this gives the beer ( a richer taste ) am i right .... iam planning on doing my first starter in two weeks for a bock.(this weekend is a christmas ale) going in keg.

 

[homebrewer_99]

...A starter is basically yeast in wort (DME/LME+water+hops+yeast), correct? If so, why is there an advantage in adding yeast to a small mini-wort (the starter), food for said yeast, vs. directly to a large source of food for the yeast, the entire wort (example - 5 gallons)? A confused but eager learner...

You are correct. A starter, water+malt+yeast, really is a mini-wort. The hops are optional though. I recommend NOT using them.

The primary purpose of a starter, whether you use dry or liquid yeast, is to make sure the yeast is alive. When you make a starter you can see the activity and know without a doubt that the yeast is viable.

Now, don't get me wrong here, many people will add the dry or the liquid directly to the wort and, for the most part, the yeast is good and will produce beer. However, the "lag time", the time between pitching the yeast and an activity, is longer. This is not a good thing because your wort can get contaminated, especially if you open ferment.

If you make a starter, which could be up to a 1/2 gal of liquid and lots of active yeast, and find it to be very active THEN brew your beer, the active yeast can start converting your sugar to alcohol almost immediately.

If you do not make a starter there is the POSSIBILITY that the yeast may not be alive. If you brew a batch then add the yeast and nothing happens for 3-4 days then you decide to add more yeast...well, you've just wasted 3-4 days. That would make me very angry.

Sometimes I will make a small starter then make a larger starter then even a larger starter. With an extra large starter you can split it up and use it for 2 batches of beer. If you had used hops in the starter you've also added bitterness. Chances are you'll brew the same type of beer, but if you do some experimenting and make another (close) style of beer that requires a different hop then the starter will have an effect on the flavor, however it will be minimal. But why test fate? Just make it without any hops.

I hope I answered your concerns.

 

[ScottT]

More than that, underpitching yeast can lead to off flavors in your brew.
There should be no more than 3 or 4 cell division which should take place during the first few hours of fermentation.

If underpitched, the yeast will spend much more time trying to grow to adequate quantities. During this extended growth period the yeast tend to secrete more esters and fusel alcohols. They may not have a sufficient number to adequately metabolize (digest) all of the fermentable sugars. So what you end up with is a beer with off-flavors (esters, fusel alcohols, diacetyl, acetaldehyde) and a high finishing gravity. You want the yeast to spend most of their energy making alcohol not babies in a fermenter!

Much of this info comes from here: http://www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php

So the lag times experienced when not pitching a starter is the yeast trying to multiply to adequate population to fit the volume and gravity of your wort. It will try to achieve a population of 100 million cells per ml. The cells divide every 90 to 180 minutes and if they divide too many times to get there, they will be weakened and may not have enough umphhh to get the job done.

 

[mike004]

Is it Ok to use table sugar in solution as "food" for a yeast starter?

My Wyeast smack pack is arriving this week...I plan to smack it, leave it a couple of days then start it off in a jam jar half-full of sugary water. Then after a few days, divide some off into a 2nd Jam jar so hopefully i get 2 for the price of 1.

People have mentioned *half-gallon* starters -- this seems a bit large to me...

Mike

 

[ScottT]

Read the above link. That will answer your question.

 

[Porter fan]

You can COLD pitch your yeast as well,I will se if I can dig up the info on it.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Is it Ok to use table sugar in solution as "food" for a yeast starter? People have mentioned *half-gallon* starters -- this seems a bit large to me...Mike

Now why would you want to do a thing like that? Use malt.

As for 1/2 gal starters...we are only talking about the liquid here, not that we build the little smak-pak into 1/2 gal of yeast. That is not what we mean.

Go look at some of the recent threads on yeast. One of the guys took some pictures of his gallon jug in his fridge. You'll get a better understanding of what we're saying.

Good luck!

 

[Tony]

...My Wyeast smack pack is arriving this week...I plan to smack it, leave it a couple of days then start it off ...Mike

Sometimes, with the smack packs, you get activity in only a few hours, so be prepared to make your starter early just in case it swells fully right away. When I used smack packs, I would smack it, wait a little bit, and if I saw it start to swell, brewing would start. I had a couple not swell for days before, and pitched them anyway... needless to say, both of these batches had problems.

People have mentioned *half-gallon* starters -- this seems a bit large to me...

Mike

If Ive learned anything, its that the better your initial ferment is, the better the batch will be. Many times with a large starter, if I pull it off my stir plate early and allow it to settle during my brew day, I can pour off some of the wort, and just pitch the yeast. This way I can make a huge starter, by having enough food present for the yeast, and get a huge amount of yeast to pitch.

 

[mike004]

Now why would you want to do a thing like that? Use malt.

Why do you advise not to use table sugar?
Surely, the idea is to build up the yeast population. What's the difference with using malt or a sugar solution as a "food" for the yeasties?

Mike

 

[homebrewer_99]

Just because it's processed, refined.

It's a personal thing. I don't use it. I haven't used table salt for over 20 years also.

 

[ScottT]

Why do you advise not to use table sugar?
Surely, the idea is to build up the yeast population. What's the difference with using malt or a sugar solution as a "food" for the yeasties?

Mike

Part of the reason to do a starter is to get your yeast adjusted to the environment they're going to work in. If they are eating plain sugar, they adjust to that then you pitch them into a wort with complex sugars, different ph, ..... They have to go through an adjustment phase again. This creates lag time and weakens your yeast.

 

[Johnwongfat]

I started making starters after my 4th batch in a row had a high FG. The starters have made a huge difference for me. I went from having FG's of 20-22 down to a more normal 12-14, depending on the style of course. I've made it standard practice just to make a starter a day or two before I want to brew. I have a patience problem as well and have pitched a starter about 12 hours after making it and it took off fast (52 to 13 in 8 days). I also got delayed and had to let a starter sit for a few days so I asked what to do on here. I made some more wort, stepped it up to a larger container, pitched it 2 days later and quite literally blew the lid off my airlock on my Imperial Stout. That was my first time needing a blowoff tube. My point is that it is well worth the minor inconvenience of needing to plan ahead and the half hour of work, and if you are feeling impatient you don't absolutely have to wait 2 or 3 days before pitching like some people say, at least in my limited experience.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Alright! Another convert!

I'm glad to hear about your success.