Light bodied lager...

[moze229]

A really light colored, crisp, light body lager with a lower alcohol content that's relatively easy to make is my goal. There are several reasons for this, but I'm not going to get into the whys. Well, ok. I suppose I could say why.

1 - I've never made a lager before.
2 - I've never made a light colored beer before.
3 - I like lighter colored beer with lower alcohol content on occasion
4 - My wife will drink it and like it
5 - I have family that will drink it and like it
6 - this will be a challenge for me and I like that.

I've always made darker ales that are forgiving for off flavors and such. I realize that my goal beer is not going to hide any mistakes, and that's ok. I will stress my attention to detail.

I've decided on a Mexican style lager. I've put a recipe together based on research that I've spent some time doing. I realize that there are likely some WTF elements to it, and that's why I'm here. Tell me what I'm doing wrong. Lol. It's not really a recipe yet, just an ingredient list for a 5 US gallon batch.

4.5 lbs of the lightest DME. (I notice that most light colored beers include DME instead of LME. Is there a reason for this?)
1 oz Mt Hood
.5 oz Saaz
WLP940 white labs lagering yeast.
1/2 pound Vienna malt steeped at 150 for 30 min before the boil. (To add body. I want a light body beer, but not watered down.)
I'll be using RO filtered water. Not deionized (0 tds), just osmosised. Lol. (About 4-5 TDS).

Now if I wanted to lower the ABV even more, couldn't I use less DME and add more Vienna? I realize the recipe I have here will likely create an ABV in the high 4's. I haven't figured out potential OG exactly or anything because I don't know how to do that. I'm just basing my recipe on descriptions and other recipes that I've read about. I'd also consider using a LME if anyone would think it would work for what I'm doing. I've never used DME before. I know the conversion is ~ .8 DME to 1 LME (LME is about 20% water), but I don't know the taste differences.

I can lager in a spare fridge. I haven't got the details of the recipe figured out yet, but my list pretty much spells it all out. Please remove/add/critique my thinking process and ingredients. Thanks for reading my post.

 

[rodwha]

Briess makes what is called pilsen LME which is a lager extract. Ultralight DME is often the DME version, but you'd need to make certain before purchasing.

Vienna also creates alcohol, though a little less if swapping out even amounts. But make sure you aren't overdoing the Vienna. I'm not sure where the line is, but if you are making a light, crisp beer I'd think it would be easy to overdo. I've not used it yet though, and generally don't make many beers like this, though I do often make a honey wheat, and will be making my jalapeño cream ale (though not to style really as I don't use corn) a staple, which brings me to:

Have you considered cream ales or a kolsch? Even a blonde? These are often well received by BMC drinkers. This could help them evolve into ale drinkers.

There are a few free online brew calculators. I use Brewtoad, but Brewer's Friend is another.

I've yet to make a lager, but I think I'll go in the direction of darker, more flavorful types.

 

[JonM]

You're going to need a HUGE starter for something like this if you're using liquid lager yeast. If you don't have a stir plate, or if you're not totally comfortable with making big starters, you might want to use two packs of 34/70 yeast instead - that'll simply the process a little bit. Do you have a way to keep the fermentation temps between 48-52?

You can also make pretty spectacular lager-like light ales using German Ale Yeast - Wyeast 1007. I use that all the time, and it's a lot more forgiving than lager yeast.

 

[moze229]

Briess makes what is called pilsen LME which is a lager extract. Ultralight DME is often the DME version, but you'd need to make certain before purchasing.

Vienna also creates alcohol, though a little less if swapping out even amounts. But make sure you aren't overdoing the Vienna. I'm not sure where the line is, but if you are making a light, crisp beer I'd think it would be easy to overdo. I've not used it yet though, and generally don't make many beers like this, though I do often make a honey wheat, and will be making my jalapeño cream ale (though not to style really as I don't use corn) a staple, which brings me to:

Have you considered cream ales or a kolsch? Even a blonde? These are often well received by BMC drinkers. This could help them evolve into ale drinkers.

There are a few free online brew calculators. I use Brewtoad, but Brewer's Friend is another.

I've yet to make a lager, but I think I'll go in the direction of darker, more flavorful types.

I have considered doing a lighter ale, but I really want to give a lager a shot. If I begin the process in December sometime, it should be ready by about the start of the Spring.

This is more of a challenge for me than anything else. Being that I've never done a lager before AND that I'll have to wait much longer than I'm accustomed to before drinking, I'm looking forward to it. I do like the fact that others will enjoy the drink more than my darker ales, but that is definitely not one of the main reasons for me doing this.

You're going to need a HUGE starter for something like this if you're using liquid lager yeast. If you don't have a stir plate, or if you're not totally comfortable with making big starters, you might want to use two packs of 34/70 yeast instead - that'll simply the process a little bit. Do you have a way to keep the fermentation temps between 48-52?

You can also make pretty spectacular lager-like light ales using German Ale Yeast - Wyeast 1007. I use that all the time, and it's a lot more forgiving than lager yeast.

I'll look at the dry yeast, as I didn't consider having to make a starter. I don't even know how to do that. LOL I chose this yeast strain based on reviews and recipes for the style of beer I'm going for. I really want to use a lager yeast since that's what I'm going for. Are there other dry yeast options that I should be looking at?

As I stated, I do have an extra fridge that I THINK I can get to the appropriate temp range. If anything it would be too low, which won't work either. I don't have a fridge that I can modify so I'm hoping that turning the thermostat all the way up will get me close. I'm going to be checking that soon. If not, I'll have to find another way. If all else fails, I'll look at a German ale yeast as an alternative, although I'm not sure that will get me where I want to be.

If I'm going to go through all the work to try and make this happen, I want to be as close to using the 'correct' ingredients as possible. What I mean by that is, I'm already flying by the seat of my pants really as it is. If I start changing things around too much, I may end up with something that's too far off.

I realize that many in the home brew community frown upon the exact type of beer that I'm trying to make. "Watered-down, flavorless, bodiless, beer." is what I'm accustomed to reading. But I happen to like this kind of beer, especially in the summer. I'm not a big drinker, but I like to drink a few at a time when I'm sitting around with friends/family. I find that kinda hard to do sometimes with my ales. This type of recipe will allow me to drink a few without the full body/boozy feeling. This doesn't mean that I don't appreciate a full bodied stout. I definitely do, and will continue to work on my evolution of those type of recipes as well.

 

[rodwha]

A yeast starter is rather simple. I began by using 2 qt juice bottles, but finally bought 2 Erlenmeyer flasks (2000ml).

For an ale it's roughly 1 qt/L and ~1/4 lb of DME. You make a ~1.040 simple beer with nothing else. I don't have a stir plate so I just give it a few violent shakes each day for 12-24 hours prior to pitch time.

Most chill and decant the liquid. I just swirled and tossed it all in without chilling. This way I have active fermenting yeast at pitch, but mostly because it's the only way I've done it and it was just easier.

A lager yeast will require something like twice the size of starter.

I've certainly been interested in making a few different lagers except that it would take up my fermentation chamber for quite some time. I like that my chamber is set with no need to mess with anything (set at 64*) no matter what I'm fermenting.

 

[RussPDX]

A few things for you to consider.

1. Fermentation temp control is extremely important when making a lager. You may want to out a carboy of water in your fridge and play with the temp control before putting your beer in there. You can by a ranco or Johnson controller that will help with temp control for under $50 which would not require modifying the fridge and give you temp control. You can build one from an STC-1000 as well (google it) for a few bucks less and a little more work. If you can't control the temp well, which means keeping it around 50'ish for primary, then up to the low-mid 60's for a diacytal rest (I used to just move the carboy near my oil furnace and it was perfect), and then drop down to the 30's for at least a month to lager, then I would suggest a kolsch or cream rather than a true lager. A kolsch (I have used German ale yeast with great success) you can ferment at 60 take up a few degrees for a few days and then drop way down to lager.

2. As a previous poster said, don't just swap out DME for Vienna, there is a balance you are looking for. You can reduce the DME without adding the Vienna and be just fine. As for your recipe, without knowing a little more about what you are calling a five gallon batch it is hard to give specifics on the calculations. Are you going into the fermentor at 5 or at 5.5? Do you get any loss in you transfer from the kettle? I use beersmith which you do have to pay for, but any of the mentioned free recipe designers will get you going in the right direction. I would also recommend getting a copy of Brewing Classic Styles. I have found that any time I want to brew a style that I have not done before I can either just use one right from the book or at least use it as a check against what I am planning. The quality of those recipes consistently very good.

3. Lastly on the yeast starter front, pitching rate, temp control and sanitization are your 3 major keys to great lagers, if you are not comfortable making a starter, or just don't want to deal with it this time, then don't. But that means that you just need to buy more yeast. I tend to due Wyeast and when I stepped up the amount of yeast I was pitching I saw an immediate improvement in my beers. I tend to make bigger beers than what you are referring to, it my rule of thumb is either two packs of yeast per 5 gallons of ale or 3 packs per five gallons of lager. I make starters so I will start with one pack per 5 gallons and step once with a 2L starter for ales and twice for lagers. Really it is just time and money. For your first lager I would just suck of the few extra dollars and buy the extra yeast. For a smaller beer you would be probably fine with 2 packs for a five gallon batch.

,


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[moze229]

A yeast starter is rather simple. I began by using 2 qt juice bottles, but finally bought 2 Erlenmeyer flasks (2000ml).

For an ale it's roughly 1 qt/L and ~1/4 lb of DME. You make a ~1.040 simple beer with nothing else. I don't have a stir plate so I just give it a few violent shakes each day for 12-24 hours prior to pitch time.

Most chill and decant the liquid. I just swirled and tossed it all in without chilling. This way I have active fermenting yeast at pitch, but mostly because it's the only way I've done it and it was just easier.

A lager yeast will require something like twice the size of starter.

I've certainly been interested in making a few different lagers except that it would take up my fermentation chamber for quite some time. I like that my chamber is set with no need to mess with anything (set at 64*) no matter what I'm fermenting.

Yeah, it doesn't sound like a starter is something that I really want to mess with. It's not really that big of deal, but I want to try and make this as simple as possible without leaving anything important out. I'd probably just suck it up at least this once and just get more yeast up front and pay more.

A few things for you to consider.

1. Fermentation temp control is extremely important when making a lager. You may want to out a carboy of water in your fridge and play with the temp control before putting your beer in there. You can by a ranco or Johnson controller that will help with temp control for under $50 which would not require modifying the fridge and give you temp control. You can build one from an STC-1000 as well (google it) for a few bucks less and a little more work. If you can't control the temp well, which means keeping it around 50'ish for primary, then up to the low-mid 60's for a diacytal rest (I used to just move the carboy near my oil furnace and it was perfect), and then drop down to the 30's for at least a month to lager, then I would suggest a kolsch or cream rather than a true lager. A kolsch (I have used German ale yeast with great success) you can ferment at 60 take up a few degrees for a few days and then drop way down to lager.

2. As a previous poster said, don't just swap out DME for Vienna, there is a balance you are looking for. You can reduce the DME without adding the Vienna and be just fine. As for your recipe, without knowing a little more about what you are calling a five gallon batch it is hard to give specifics on the calculations. Are you going into the fermentor at 5 or at 5.5? Do you get any loss in you transfer from the kettle? I use beersmith which you do have to pay for, but any of the mentioned free recipe designers will get you going in the right direction. I would also recommend getting a copy of Brewing Classic Styles. I have found that any time I want to brew a style that I have not done before I can either just use one right from the book or at least use it as a check against what I am planning. The quality of those recipes consistently very good.

3. Lastly on the yeast starter front, pitching rate, temp control and sanitization are your 3 major keys to great lagers, if you are not comfortable making a starter, or just don't want to deal with it this time, then don't. But that means that you just need to buy more yeast. I tend to due Wyeast and when I stepped up the amount of yeast I was pitching I saw an immediate improvement in my beers. I tend to make bigger beers than what you are referring to, it my rule of thumb is either two packs of yeast per 5 gallons of ale or 3 packs per five gallons of lager. I make starters so I will start with one pack per 5 gallons and step once with a 2L starter for ales and twice for lagers. Really it is just time and money. For your first lager I would just suck of the few extra dollars and buy the extra yeast. For a smaller beer you would be probably fine with 2 packs for a five gallon batch.

Using water as a control for testing temperature is a wise decision. I will consider that as I move forward. I'll definitely get the temp controls worked out BEFORE I decide to try this.

I'm calling it a 5 gallon batch because that's the volume I bring my primary to after the boil. I do partial boils (2.5 gallon), and then add to 5 gallon at the end. (I forgot to mention the partial boil part - is that going to work?) So, it goes into the fermenter at 5, and I loose a little through the process through testing/bottling.

So you believe that 4.5 DME will be enough without steeping the Vienna? If so, that's fine because it eliminates a step. I just don't want to make it too watered down. Of course, 4.5 DME should be fine I suppose. I also don't want to miss any of the flavorings that I may be seeking. This style of beer always has some sort of malt steep in the recipes that I've seen.

Yep - I'll plan on just buying more yeast up front. A starter is not something that I'd like to do right now.

Thank you all for the help!

 

[RussPDX]

Moze, I think you misunderstood and I was not overly clear. I did not mean leave out the Vienna altogether, just tHat if you want to drop the abv by reducing the original gravity you can remove the DME and not up the Vienna, or may even need to reduce the Vienna or any steeping grains in proportion. Think of the DME or LME as the base and where you are getting your alcohol from and the steeping grains for your flavor. If you cut the base way down and did not reduce the grains you would be overpowered by the flavor.

I make a Kolsch with .5 lbs of Vienna as the only specialty and It turns out great so I would say you are just about on the money with that. I put mine closer to the 6% abv mark however.

Doing your concentrated boils you are going to most likely get some darkening. I have never been able to make very light beers that way, but I don't really care much about colrer, especially when I am doing an extract. I would talk to your LHBS and tell them what you are making and ask for a recommendation. I am lucky to have a really good LHBS store so they carry a variety of extracts and turn them over so I can get specific things like wheat, or Pilsner whenI want it.

Good Luck.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[rodwha]

Use the wort created from the steeped Vienna malts along with maybe 1/3 of your extract to help keep it from darkening too much. Add the rest anywhere from 0-15 mins (I add mine at flameout).

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

+1 what rodwa said.

1 - Use the pilsner or ultra-lite DME or LME.

2 - Add the extract no longer than the last 15 min of your boil to avoid carmelization.

3 - If using dry yeast, pitch at least 2 packs. Check this with a yeast calculator or with the manufacturer's recommendation.

4 - Hold your ferm temp at ~50F (+/- 2F) for two weeks.

5 - Once you're about 80% of the way to FG, warm it up to 65F for 3 days

6 - Drop 3-5F per day until you get into the upper 30's and let it sit for 6 - 8 weeks

7 - If you bottle, some people add a little yeast to the bottling bucket but it's not absolutely necessary as long as you have patience for carbing. Carb at room temp and then chill an enjoy.

As already said, temp control is the most important part of this process. A controller is money well spent. And fermentation becomes much less complicated and seasonal dependent.

 

[moze229]

All good info. I planned on late extract addition. As soon as I bottle my current batch (nut brown ale) I'll start working on figuring out the fridge I plan to use. I hope to get this new batch started sometime before Christmas for drinking in April

 

[moze229]

Well, I've bottled the other batch and I have a free fermenter now. But, the fridge that I have available will only hold as high as 45F turned all the way down. (As warm as it will go). So, I suppose I'll need some sort of other way to control the temp. I need to get up a bit higher for the yeast that I want to use. I'll be looking at temp controllers now.

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

http://www.amazon.com/Johnson-Controls-Digital-Thermostat-Control/sim/B00368D6JA/2

Money well spent. Worth the extra $20 for digital rather than analog.

 

[moze229]

Ok Folks,

I'm placing an online order tonight, and I was going to go ahead and throw all of the ingredients from this on that order. I've decided to go ahead with the dry yeast instead of the liquid. I may give that a shot next time, but for now I'm going with either the Wyeast 1007 or 34/70. I can't decide between the two for what I'm doing here - any suggestions? Also, it was mentioned to use two packs instead of one in this batch - is that with either one that I choose?

I realize that these may be elementary questions for those of you who have been at this for a while, but I'm trying to pick all of this up as quick as I can. There is a lot to it.

EDIT: Nevermind. I'll be going with the 34/70. While the ale strain would likely work well in this case, I want to follow through with the lagering process. So for this order, I will go 2 packs of 34/70.

 

[moze229]

Ok guys - this is what I'm going to do.

2.5 - 3.0 gallon boil (for creating a 5 gallon batch total)
Steep .5 lbs Vienna for 30 minutes at 150F
Add 1 oz Mt Hood and ~ 1/3 extract and boil for 60 minutes
Add .5 oz. of Saaz for 15 minutes.
Add remaining extract at flameout.
Ferment at 48 - 52F for 14 days. (SafLager 34/70)
Bring temp back up to ~65F for 3 days for clean up
Slowly drop temp back down to high 30's for lagering 6-8 weeks.

Not really a formal recipe, but it at least spells out my plan. Any opinions on this?

Online brewing calculator says:

- OG 1.038
- FG 1.011
- SRM 3.07
- IBU 13.17
- ABV 3.65%

I realize that these are all anticipated/estimates and I'm not expecting miracles. But this is exactly where I was wanting to go with this. Looks good on paper. In a few months we'll see how that translates to taste. Worst case scenario - I end up with beer.

I've also been reading about adding amylase enzyme near the end of fermentation to help add the 'crispness' that I was talking about before. I realize that this furthers the fermentation, raising the potential ABV - any opinions on that process? The only recipes that I've seen with this are either mashed or included at the end of fermentation in an ale. I'm not mashing on this, and its not an ale, so that's why I'm asking. This process usually involves aging a bit to remove off flavors created by the enzyme, but since it's a lager, that's part of the process anyway.

 

[JonM]

Looks like you have a good recipe and a good plan in place. I bet you'll get the "crispness" you're after simply from the lagering process and that amalyse won't be necessary.

 

[VladOfTrub]

You'll have fun brewing Lager styles of beer. I am always chasing the tail of light lager.

Good choice on the yeast. It probably won't be necessary to do a diacetyl rest. The rest is beat to death by homebrewers. If you brew a batch that develops diacetyl, clean up the brewing process, instead of creating another process. There is no sense in beating up the yeast, cleaning a beer that shouldn't have to be cleaned up.

There are different types af amylase. The amylase types differ in enzyme content. The base enzyme is beta glucanase. The primary enzymes is alpha. The enzymes are used when mash consists of high percentages of corn or rice, or to correct deficiencies in the malt. The enzyme is added early during the mashing process. It reduces the viscosity of the mash by converting beta glucan to glucose. The glucose will later be converted by beta. Lowering viscosity helps during the sparging procedure. I'm not sure what enzyme is out there that will work in cold fermented beer, but there may be one. I would venture to bet that the LHBS owner has no idea of what type of amylase is on his shelf. He purchased whatever was advertized as creating more alcohol, that isn't the case at all, when it comes to picking out a certain type of amylase. Alcohol is a secondary benefit that comes from using amylase.

If your cranked up on doing a diacetyl rest and due to your interest in enzymes. There is an enzyme that you can dump in that remove precursors that form diacetyl.

 

[moze229]

Thanks for the input.

After contemplating this more, I'm going to skip the enzyme process for now. It just adds another step and unknown to an already unfamiliar territory. I think the best thing to do is just follow through with it without the enzyme. If afterwords I decide that it's not clean enough, or I want to try beating the pants off an already clear beer, I'll try that next time. I could do half with and half without, but I'm way too lazy for all of that work Plus I don't have enough fermenters. I may have to buy another anyway though, since this one will be tied up for almost three months.

I'm going to try and update this as I go forward, but you know how that goes.