Lets send CRAIGTUBE some beer!

[Revvy]

Well I suppose I should have explained myself there. My point is that I do know that he started brewing because commercial brews in Canada are a bit pricy. With that said, Ag without question and PM to an extent is more affordable than all extract in a lot of cases. I never questioned the mans intelligence nor did I try to preach to him. Too many folks have done that in the past. So for the reasons I've heard of why he began brewing, I believe PM or AG would be more suitable for him.

,
J

But he's pretty much stated ad nauseum in his videos, that he really has little interest in over-complicating things, by going ag or pm. He is perfectly content mixing his extracts together, and that's really all that matters. (He'd be more content if folks let him be, of course.)

To imply that "we know better," or that one way of brewing is "better" bespeaks elitism, and to me is against what Charlie Papazian and RDWHAHB is. There is no better in brewing, only what we prefer. Or what works best for US, and it might not be the best for anyone else.

That's what I wrote about in this blog... AG is NOT the magic bullet of brewing....It's just another way. http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Why_cant_we_all_get_along/

 

[mattd2]

I think Revvy has nailed it in his blog, the man is happy with how he does things and how it turns out. He is also educating a lot of people it seems that homebrewing is not really that hard to start in. If these people want to take it a step further then they will do their own research and find out about extract kits and AG and if it is right for them. In regards to the original post if I was this Craigtube guy and some guy offered to send me some of his homebrew I wouldn't be saying no

I completely understand people who don't have the space to do AG batches, but I think you're thinking of a system a bit more "grand" than most of us use. I don't have some fancy RIMS system. I have a kettle, propane burner, and a cooler with a manifold inside of it. Works great and have been using it for years. I'd say total it's around a $100-$200 investment depending on which type of cooler, propane burner, and kettle you decide to go with.

Halfpint my point wasn't that I want to jump staight into a super trick RIMS system, but that I don't want to spend that $100-$200 only to, in a few years, have a cooler, burner, etc. sitting in the corner of my garage if I bust out an electric rims system (which is my eventual plan)
I would rather spend $150-$250 on setting up a electric keggle for the brew in a bag method that I could then reuse in a more complex system, long term cost effectiveness is a goal of mine.
I am still brewing coopers kits as this lets me nail down one thing first, fermetation. I know my beers won't be the best they can be with up to a kg of sugar in there but you can still tell off flavours due to high fermentation temps, etc and I can work on getting that right before other things get thrown in the mix. It also lets me have the most time coming on here and soaking up as much knowledge as possible so that (as in Revvy's blog) I won't need to come on here and start a thread as to why my efficiency sucked when I mashed at 130.
Each to their own I say, but if anyone wants to try and "convert" me to AG be sending me some homebrew I am not saying no

 

[Lepersquatch]

I agree with Revvy. I just got into homebrewing and I am proud to say that Craigtube encuraged me. I did not however do a coopers for my first. I did 3 batches of extract with specialty grains. Im going to wait and play with this method and see how I like it before I decide where to go next, if anywhear at all. Extract w specialty might be it or me.

 

[carnevoodoo]

To imply that "we know better," or that one way of brewing is "better" bespeaks elitism, and to me is against what Charlie Papazian and RDWHAHB is. There is no better in brewing, only what we prefer. Or what works best for US, and it might not be the best for anyone else.

I could not disagree more. Just because you want everyone to get along doesn't mean that there's not a way that will produce better, more consistent beer every time. I could care less about personal preference, as that's up to each person, but what is ACTUALLY better is not really even debatable.

 

[Lepersquatch]

Whats good for one is crap to the next.

 

[CorneliusAlphonse]

I could not disagree more. Just because you want everyone to get along doesn't mean that there's not a way that will produce better, more consistent beer every time. I could care less about personal preference, as that's up to each person, but what is ACTUALLY better is not really even debatable.

... I loathe being drawn into internet arguments, and usually get bored 1/3 of the way through writing a response, so this will be short and civil:

Just as different people like different types of beer (IIPA vs RIS vs BMC and everything in between), people are allowed to like different methods. what you consider "better" they might consider "more time consuming, more difficult, and therefore much worse". They might view consistency as a drawback, as it removes character from what might otherwise become a boring series of identical brews.

I just broke an empty growler by tripping over it. i should store them elsewhere not the middle of my floor.

 

[HalfPint]

... I loathe being drawn into internet arguments, and usually get bored 1/3 of the way through writing a response, so this will be short and civil:

+1

Back to homework.

J

 

[BBKing]

... I loathe being drawn into internet arguments, and usually get bored 1/3 of the way through writing a response, so this will be short and civil:

Just as different people like different types of beer (IIPA vs RIS vs BMC and everything in between), people are allowed to like different methods. what you consider "better" they might consider "more time consuming, more difficult, and therefore much worse". They might view consistency as a drawback, as it removes character from what might otherwise become a boring series of identical brews.

I just broke an empty growler by tripping over it. i should store them elsewhere not the middle of my floor.

I would have agreed with whoever you were addressing and then you wrote this.

Well said.

I suppose we've all been there when we started brewing. "Lets see what happens with that next batch!" I can get behind that....

...but then again, my tune may change when I try my first AG batch here in a couple weeks.

Bottom line is, we're all brewers. And in true HBT spirit, we help each other. AG, Extract, or PM, my experience is your experience.

Its all about the love of the brew.

Prost

 

[Shooter]

I watch CraigTube religiously. He seems like a good guy. I enjoyed his AG rant a few weeks back and Bobby M's response to it.

He does seem a little frustrated at times with the way people attack him. I know he's in a YouTube battle with TakeSomeAdvice. Of course, that guy was on here for a bit....before he got banned. If anyone needed to "take some advice" it was that guy!

EDIT: Plus the guy isn't a half bad musician. He's better than me, but, let's face it, I kind of suck!

 

[HalfPint]

EDIT: Plus the guy isn't a half bad musician.

He's actually pretty damn good if you ask me. I really like the eagles cover he did a while back.

 

[mitch171]

I could not disagree more. Just because you want everyone to get along doesn't mean that there's not a way that will produce better, more consistent beer every time. I could care less about personal preference, as that's up to each person, but what is ACTUALLY better is not really even debatable.

I have to agree with this for the most part but offer a alteration.

Everyone have their preferences, maybe saying AG is the most authentic/whole process/most control, would be a better way of describing it than best. As "best" is subjective. I would not even say that your personal preference is the "best."

AG may give you more ability to tune your brew into what you want. Or you may not have the time/resources/drive/skill to do so yourself. If you are not able to do so, or don't care to, then the beer will not be nearly as good as if you start with some consistency in your malt extract which has been produced on a mass basis under a highly controlled environment.

So I guess what I am saying is that "best" is up to personal ability and desire not the process. Authenticity and ability to customize may be gained in AG but would be lost for someone that wants a less complicated brew day.

For me AG is not really any more difficult than extract brewing. I only have to heat water one more time and have a cooler. I also don't take AG as seriously as some people do and my beer comes out fine. I also can brew outside so the extra mess and larger boiling needs are not a problem and do not require extra work to accomplish than extract.

I also have made wine since I was ~12 and not that is 14 years the process again is less complicated than most people make it and the wine comes out as good or better than most midrange priced wine on the market. Any process can be as simple or complex as you want it to be. The "best" method is up to the user. The authentic way is according to history and the most control will be that which uses the most whole products.

There could be an argument that we should all malt our own grain and grow our own hops so that we have control over the exact properties of all our ingredients...

I for one have started growing my own hops, do I brew better than you if you don't do the same? No right now it is thought that buying pre-grown/packaged hops is better because the alpha content is known. Is this not also true with malt extract?

In the end it is what you enjoy, it is a hobby. It is the level of control, effort, equipment, time and process you want to put into it.

There is only a best way that you can choose to do your chosen process. And there is always another way you could do it that will lead to alternant results.

 

[Revvy]

I could not disagree more. Just because you want everyone to get along doesn't mean that there's not a way that will produce better, more consistent beer every time. I could care less about personal preference, as that's up to each person, but what is ACTUALLY better is not really even debatable.

But this is that BS argument about which is better that is beating a dead horse....And my answer is SO WHAT.

It's not about what is better, it's about What is better for each of us . And that's an individual preference. And how far each of us wants to go in this hobby.

I'm sorry voodoo but I've tasted my share of crappy all grain beer in my day, even on multi thousands dollar systems made by brewer's who thought their Sh** didn't stink, but couldn't be bothered to read a hydrometer or something like that. And on Occasion I have tasted some Mr Beer beers that were done so meticulously and following suggestions on here that blew me away.

So as much as you want to re-hash the "which method is better, more consistant, blah blah blah." I can probably cite examples to counter it, like the pico-brewery I go to every week that makes great micro beers from EXTRACT, in fact basically commercial versions of LD Carlson's BB kits. Or the guy who posted on here that medaled.....for a Mr Beer beer.


I saw 100's of brewers Saturday at the big brew, at all levels, and most of them obviously were Ag'ers, but there were extracters there as well. And even awesome extract beer kit beers brewed by the LHBS on tap. And you know, there were some pretty sloppy a$$ ag-ers with bad or sloppy processes there, who had been brewing for a lot longer than I have, and I'd be pretty afraid to try some of their beers.

Because no matter what, it's still not about the method, or the materials, Ag or extract or whatever tit's the brewer, that either makes great beer, or makes pizzwater.

*yawn*

And going back to the original premise of why I responded to senor halfpint's thread, just like I hate clergy who try to shove religion or even a certain way of thinking down people's throats, and instead I try to just provide people with tools and info to come to their own conclusions about god, the universe and each other. It's the same to me about brewing, if they are interested and open (Which Craig isn't) we provide the tools and info, but it ain't are job to evangelize our particular way of brewing down folks throats. And also not to ridicule them for being content doing what they are doing.

 

[mattd2]

Amen to that Revvy!

 

[mojotele]

While you can scientifically prove that certain methods will produce better beer than others, that's irrelevant to this whole conversation. What's important is brewing methods vs. how much you care about the product.

Like many have said, Craig is fine with his beer. Will certain changes to his methods produce better beer? Probably. But he doesn't care. He's fine with his beer.

So there's no problem, right? Leave the dude alone. He doesn't need or want your help. I'm going with Revvy on this one.

 

[brewagentjay]

I agree with Revvy, If you don't like what this guy is doing it then don't do it.........Let him be. In his opinion his way might be better........Taste is a opinion thing. I moved to AG and so far my Extract beers are still winners but I'm trying....

I'm not sure why we on this board try to say our way or some other way is better. It's great to give advice but don't expect a person to follow it if the advice doesn't seem to make sense to them.

Come on.......this board is great for information and should be happy Craig is a brewer not upset with his style of brewing.

If Craig asks a question on something give him some advice but don't force it down his throat.

Now all have a homebrew Extract, PM, or AG........just have a Homebrew.........

P.S. Don't hate on extract brewing as most do on BMC on here......just not right.

 

[olllllo]

This is a monumentally bad idea. I don't see this being interpreted as the undoubtedly nice gesture that surely is by Mr Tube. I unofficially remove any HBT sanction for this using any ceremonial and nominal powers that I have.

On the other topic of the "right" way to do things, Please start another thread, so that all the usual suspects can flagellate each other.

 

[mattd2]

This is a monumentally bad idea. I don't see this being interpreted as the undoubtedly nice gesture that surely is by Mr Tube. I unofficially remove any HBT sanction for this using any ceremonial and nominal powers that I have.

On the other topic of the "right" way to do things, Please start another thread, so that all the usual suspects can flagellate each other.

I think it could go either way depending on how you present it. If you just send him some homebrew with a note saying "coopers prehopped LME is **** have some real homebrew that I made from scratch in only 6 hours , your a ***** for "brewing" with coopers kits," then yep I don't think that will go down well.
If the note said "hey, I've been watching your vids on youtube and I think its great that you are getting the homebrew word out there, I have included some of my homebrew for you to try and possibly review on a future vid. these are all grain brews that took me 6 hours from grain to fermenter including clean up. hope you enjoy and good luck with you future brewing." I think he would be a lot more receptive, I mean come on its free beer!

By the way, how does one go about getting some of those ceremonial powers?

 

[olllllo]

mattd2 : It's just that Mr Tube and this board have a history. Unfortunately, we ARE the bad guys. He's been character assassinated about a dozen times by various members of this board.

 

[MeatyPortion]

I would send him some of my beer if he'd send me some of his. I'd be interested to see how it tastes.

 

[mitch171]

I wish I had made an impact like CraigTube has, look at all of us talking about him! I hope he finds this thread. It is great there are people who are passionate about spreading the craft. And after all this attention he is hitting brewing celebrity status!

 

[mattd2]

mattd2 : It's just that Mr Tube and this board have a history. Unfortunately, we ARE the bad guys. He's been character assassinated about a dozen times by various members of this board.

Given that bit of information the I would have to agree with you olllllo!

 

[HalfPint]

Look, I'm sorry that I opened a can of worms. This was not my intention. I simply wanted to send the guy some of my homebrew because I think he does a lot for new homebrewers. This entire thread got thrown way out of proportion and I suppose that was my fault for starting it in the first place.

J

P.S.

I'm not really apologizing to any members on this forum or any one else, but rather for the fact that I started the topic in the first place.

 

[olllllo]

Look, I'm sorry that I opened a can of worms. This was not my intention. I simply wanted to send the guy some of my homebrew because I think he does a lot for new homebrewers. This entire thread got thrown way out of proportion and I suppose that was my fault for starting it in the first place.

J

P.S.

I'm not really apologizing to any members on this forum or any one else, but rather for the fact that I started the topic in the first place.

No worries. Now you and a bunch of other people know. You do what you feel is best, but maybe not do it on behalf of HBT, because then all the haters will be hatin'.

 

[HalfPint]

No worries. Now you and a bunch of other people know. You do what you feel is best, but maybe not do it on behalf of HBT, because then all the haters will be hatin'.

Can't we all just get along?

J

 

[mitch171]

Can't we all just get along?

J

Nah, we are all opinionated.

 

[Newton]

When I first became interested in homebrewing, I went on youtube and found Craig's brewing series. I watch them all several times and felt that I learned quite abit from them. His simple videos encouraged me to take up the hobby. If all the videos on youtube were convoluted AG processes with fly sparging and all that, I probably would've been turned off to the hobby. In the end, and a bunch of research, I skipped extract brewing or kits and jumped right into AG from recipes rights from the git go. But I'll still watch Craig's videos and I'd drink a beer with him any time.

 

[HalfPint]

When I first became interested in homebrewing, I went on youtube and found Craig's brewing series. I watch them all several times and felt that I learned quite abit from them. His simple videos encouraged me to take up the hobby. If all the videos on youtube were convoluted AG processes with fly sparging and all that, I probably would've been turned off to the hobby. In the end, and a bunch of research, I skipped extract brewing or kits and jumped right into AG from recipes rights from the git go. But I'll still watch Craig's videos and I'd drink a beer with him any time.

+1

I know exactly how you feel.

J

 

[jjones17]

I could not disagree more. Just because you want everyone to get along doesn't mean that there's not a way that will produce better, more consistent beer every time. I could care less about personal preference, as that's up to each person, but what is ACTUALLY better is not really even debatable.

Yeah - what you said.

Send him the damned kit; let the guy decide if he wants to dislike the offering and send it straight back. After all, HE IS THE ONE making public videos, on a public sight, literally asking for people to critique him in any way they see fit. That is what public media is.... entertainment open to interrepretation.

If this guy wanted to be left alone, he should not be publisicing his brewing methods in videos on Youtube. The guy likes the spotlight - In this he gets everything that comes with it.

 

[Newton]

Fine go ahead and obsess about Craig and his brewing videos; it makes you guys look like self righteous beer Pharisees. I'm going to go get a home brew and not look at this thread any more...

 

[Beer-Baron]

I'm meeting Craig tonight (seriously). Were in the same city. I've spoken to him on the phone and hes a really nice guy. So were meeting up.

I hope he offers me one of his beers. It would be an honor to try the beer that got me started!