Legal issues: Freetail Brewing Co.

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If I am ever in San Antonio, I know where I want to go to drink. They make a beer with that t-rex drawing as the logo and call it "angry duck rex" or something. I would buy that t-shirt.

I also love how they scanned the letter crooked. haha
 
Wow dude. While I agree that the letter was not that professional, I think that was the whole point of the letter. One business is acting all professional and whatnot and sending him a cease and desist order that he thinks is crazy. It would be like Budweiser sending me a C&D letter because I say I am the king of Beer. It's obvious from his response that he doesn't take the whole thing (business of it) too seriously. He has no plans on competing with Steelhead brewing.

If you can't see the humor in his response, wow.



Airborneguy said:
I think I covered the let loose part. One doesn't have to always let loose though. And the last part of your quote is pure fairy tale. Brewing is a business once you take it to the professional level. Try being all "cool and brotherly" with zoning boards, health agencies, the Fed, etc. I'm sure professional brewing can be very fun at times, but I've seen more that indicates that it is just like any other job/business out there.



Thanks! But like I said, I'm no Debbie Downer, I just don't see this as something I can support without a lot more info. I'm all for retaliatory responses, and even proposed one at work today for a friend who's doctor is screwing him, but that was over-the-top, especially in a situation where there must have been some basis for the initial contact to begin with.
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I guess I'm just a loser 'cause I can't get on board with this one, oh well.

Search my posts, plenty of nonsense is fine by me. This one struck me as childish. If you think my opinion deserves a dramatic "wow", that's fine by me.
 
But see that's what's so great about it. Imagine if the guy would have responded as expected "Dear Sir, we apologize for any misunderstanding.......". End of story.

The way it played out is that now the people at Steelhead look like asses due to their heavy handed tactics. The dude at Freetail gets all sorts of free publicity. And we all get a laugh. Childish and immature? Absolutely. Effective? Probably much more so that a serious letter would have been.




Airborneguy said:
I guess I'm just a loser 'cause I can't get on board with this one, oh well.

Search my posts, plenty of nonsense is fine by me. This one struck me as childish. If you think my opinion deserves a dramatic "wow", that's fine by me.
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Defending your mark doesn't require an attorney, it just requires a letter be sent. Personally, if I'd been in the shoes of the OR brewery, I would have sent them a letter myself, instead of paying a bloodsucker to send it.
 
usfmikeb said:
Defending your mark doesn't require an attorney, it just requires a letter be sent. Personally, if I'd been in the shoes of the OR brewery, I would have sent them a letter myself, instead of paying a bloodsucker to send it.
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Yeah, really. You can probably get the proper legal "form" online for $14.95 and send it yourself and come across a lot less jerkish.
 
mcarb said:
But see that's what's so great about it. Imagine if the guy would have responded as expected "Dear Sir, we apologize for any misunderstanding.......". End of story.

The way it played out is that now the people at Steelhead look like asses due to their heavy handed tactics. The dude at Freetail gets all sorts of free publicity. And we all get a laugh. Childish and immature? Absolutely. Effective? Probably much more so that a serious letter would have been.
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"heavy handed tactics"... really? If you think that a C&D letter is a heavy handed tactic then I heavily urge you never to own/run a business because you are very likely to be overwhelmed. I am a software developer and my company receives probably a dozen or more of these a year and send out more than 3x the amount we receive, mostly due to licensing and IP issues associated with software development. Its simply the cost of doing business. I'm also with Airborne as I'm not sure why people are reading so much into this... the C&D is par for the course, the response however was not.
 
Clanchief said:
he clearly states that he agrees to the terms of the C&D, period. As long as he follows through on that, they have absolutely zero legal recourse.
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Not true. They would lose standing to seek an injunction to stop use of the name, since there was no use, but the Lanham Act also allows for a claim of damages, one measure of which can be the profits earned by Freetail on Hoposaurus Rex.

Now, as a practical matter, unless those profits are extremely high, I advise my clients not to sue once the mark is no longer being infringed because of the high costs of litigation. But get somebody oissed enough and they can sue you.

And FYI, I am way less than $500 per hour, but that is not unheard of.
 
I guess by heavy handed I meant "serious" It's obvious the guy is not taking this whole thing serious. To me, this is like you or I getting a letter from someone saying not to use our brewery's name. Say that the kind folks over at River City Brewing Co (Sacramento Ca) sent you a C&D letter. Oh sure, you'd agree and stop using the name. But you'd also be a bit blown away at the ruckus considering you are merely a small time homebrewer. I get that this guy has the same impression.

Now while the letter is funny and all, it is almost exact copy of this guy's work: "It's like twitter. Except we charge people to use it.".


RiverCityBrewer said:
"heavy handed tactics"... really? If you think that a C&D letter is a heavy handed tactic then I heavily urge you never to own/run a business because you are very likely to be overwhelmed. I am a software developer and my company receives probably a dozen or more of these a year and send out more than 3x the amount we receive, mostly due to licensing and IP issues associated with software development. Its simply the cost of doing business. I'm also with Airborne as I'm not sure why people are reading so much into this... the C&D is par for the course, the response however was not.
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mcarb said:
Say that the kind folks over at River City Brewing Co (Sacramento Ca) sent you a C&D letter. Oh sure, you'd agree and stop using the name. But you'd also be a bit blown away at the ruckus considering you are merely a small time homebrewer.
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Maybe I have already! I don't check my mail that often! :mug:
 
Airborneguy said:
So great about it to you, but not to me and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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You're probably not. I personally did find it funny, but I can understand why someone wouldn't. And I cannot for the life of me understand people that think just because they think something is funny, that anyone who doesn't agree "doesn't have a sense of humor."

All that said, its kind of a ridiculous response to something as basic as a cease and desist letter, which, as has been stated elsewhere in this thread, is really not a big deal in the legal world.
 
Yeah, I did find it funny, and it sure would have livened up my day in comparison to the other responses I get. But I also wouldn't be surprised if a smart-@ss answer ticked off my client, as Airborne said.

And like it or not, C&Ds are part of doing business. It's really not the biggest d!ck move on the world.
 
I think we should all start calling ourselves "Steelhead Brewing" and see how many C&D letters we could get. Or better yet....Russian Stone Pumpkin Brewing Co.
:drunk:
 
SittingDuck said:
Yeah, I did find it funny, and it sure would have livened up my day in comparison to the other responses I get. But I also wouldn't be surprised if a smart-@ss answer ticked off my client, as Airborne said.

And like it or not, C&Ds are part of doing business. It's really not the biggest d!ck move on the world.
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True C&D are a part of doing business (I'm in the software industry) and not the biggest d!ck move.. The nice thing would have been the Brewer ringing Freetail and talking to their brewer having a conversation with them and giving them a heads up that a C&D was sent soley to protect their TM.

I think the reality is that most of America is so tired of the corporate bullying, where a megaconglomorate can simply make the cost of litigation so world endingly prohibitive that the little guy gives in even if they are in the right. That's in my mind the reason that myself and so many others find responses like Freetail's to a C&D hilarious.

I thought he was funny with just enough satire to poke fun at the cororate legal machine.
 
Jukas said:
I think the reality is that most of America is so tired of the corporate bullying, where a megaconglomorate can simply make the cost of litigation so world endingly prohibitive that the little guy gives in even if they are in the right.
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Yeah, this is the real problem, IMO. Trademark issue should be settled based on who is right, not who has the money.
 
Homercidal said:
How is this anything but funny? Nobody gets hurt, nobody loses. Ok, maybe one guy gets his feeling hurt a tiny bit.
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I can tell a story about when I let my dogs outside this morning. Nobody gets hurt, nobody loses, and its still not funny. :D

Like I said earlier, I did find the letter funny, but I always think its interesting when people have a hard time understanding that other people might not be amused by the same things they are, and that that does NOT necessarily imply a lack of sense of humor.
 
discnjh said:
I can tell a story about when I let my dogs outside this morning. Nobody gets hurt, nobody loses, and its still not funny. :D

Like I said earlier, I did find the letter funny, but I always think its interesting when people have a hard time understanding that other people might not be amused by the same things they are, and that that does NOT necessarily imply a lack of sense of humor.
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I personally feel that everyone else should like and dislike the same things that I do. Just sayin.... :-D
 
mcarb said:
I guess by heavy handed I meant "serious" It's obvious the guy is not taking this whole thing serious. To me, this is like you or I getting a letter from someone saying not to use our brewery's name. Say that the kind folks over at River City Brewing Co (Sacramento Ca) sent you a C&D letter. Oh sure, you'd agree and stop using the name. But you'd also be a bit blown away at the ruckus considering you are merely a small time homebrewer. I get that this guy has the same impression.
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It's happened before. Granted, this wasn't a formal C&D, but still...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/interesting-pm-255642/
 
As homebrewers, we identify with the craft / micro beer industry, for understandable reasons. However, they are a business, we are not, and that's a big difference. And the topic of the OP is part of that difference. Our livelihood is not bound up in brewing; theirs is, and that is a very real difference.
 
As an IP lawyer, I just find this hilarious. I also agree that far too many lawyers charge too much for stupid stuff like this. There are better ways to do it that are cheaper for everyone. yay.

And this reminds me of halcyon days when two breweries made the "Collaboration Not Litigation" Ale. Yum.
 

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