Lebkuchengewürz

[CrissCross]

Hi all,

My wife is asking me to brew a German gingerbread stout based off of these cookies...https://www.daringgourmet.com/homemade-lebkuchengewuerz-german-gingerbread-spice-blend/ for my German mother in-law. I'm looking for any advice on malts to add and how much spices. And when might be best. So far I have a rough 5gal batch recipe built. Any help is appreciated

Lebkuchengewürz Stout - 5gal Batch

8lbs Marris Otter
2lb Flakes Oats
1lb Caramel / Crystal 60L
1lb Biscuit malt
8ozlb Midnight Wheat

60 minute boil
1oz Northern Brewer @ 30min

@10 minute left in boil
2 Whole Star Anise
2 Whole Cinnamon Stick
2 Whole Cloves
1/2 tsp Ginger
1/2 tsp allspice
1/2 teaspoon coriander
1/2 teaspoon cardamom
1/2 teaspoon nutmeg
2 oz nutmeg
1lb Lactose

 

[Arminius757]

Have you considered playing with the grain bill more to try and guide some of the flavors? I think there could be some specialty malts out there that could provide you with some of the flavors you are looking for.
For example, I would consider maybe some rye malt for a bit of spice, maybe even some crystal rye malts if you can find them.
I dont think the flaked oats would contribute much here in terms of flavors maybe replace that with rye?
Some light Munich could contribute a bit more of a sweet nutty and sugar flavor. That or Vienna. That could also replace the flaked oats.
Biscuit is a good choice here... you could maybe even get a little Special B?

Basically, I would suggest looking at your malt bill and trying to update it to get some of the flavors you want naturally through the malt.

Also, yeast choice could help you a lot here. I would look towards a Belgian Strain, something in the Trappist or Monastic category. I love Triple Double and Lallemand Abbaye. Pitch lower (65 ish) and try to control the temperature rise but dont let it exceed 75. You can get a ton of allspice, cinnamon, and coriander from that.

When it comes to the spices, just be careful how much you add. I would maybe recommend making a separate concentrated tea and adding that into the beer either post fermentation or post boil to try and control the levels of flavor.

 

[AzOr]

Great advice above.

I’d add just a couple of spices such as cinnamon and maybe ginger. Then adjust with a spice tea post fermentation.

Certain spices seem to pick up a supernatural power during fermentation. Cloves etc

>I once made a basic mead with a sprinkle of herb de Provence. It tasted great during fermentation. Once completed it became this awful oregano mead that was relegated to cooking. Never again.

 

[CrissCross]

Have you considered playing with the grain bill more to try and guide some of the flavors? I think there could be some specialty malts out there that could provide you with some of the flavors you are looking for.
For example, I would consider maybe some rye malt for a bit of spice, maybe even some crystal rye malts if you can find them.
I dont think the flaked oats would contribute much here in terms of flavors maybe replace that with rye?
Some light Munich could contribute a bit more of a sweet nutty and sugar flavor. That or Vienna. That could also replace the flaked oats.
Biscuit is a good choice here... you could maybe even get a little Special B?

Basically, I would suggest looking at your malt bill and trying to update it to get some of the flavors you want naturally through the malt.

Also, yeast choice could help you a lot here. I would look towards a Belgian Strain, something in the Trappist or Monastic category. I love Triple Double and Lallemand Abbaye. Pitch lower (65 ish) and try to control the temperature rise but dont let it exceed 75. You can get a ton of allspice, cinnamon, and coriander from that.

When it comes to the spices, just be careful how much you add. I would maybe recommend making a separate concentrated tea and adding that into the beer either post fermentation or post boil to try and control the levels of flavor.

Thanks for the ideas. Do you think that Vienna / light munich should replace the marris otter as the base malt? Or just add 1 or 2lbs to the grain bill?

 

[JohnDBrewer]

I don't think any grain bill changes will be noticeable with all the spice being added. Any possible nuances will be lost, except for body. Might use this as an opportunity to unload the small left over amounts of grain you have lying around, 2oz of this, 3oz of that. Nothing roasty/dark though, just the lighter stuff.

Interesting recipe. Any other specs - yeast, OG, FG, IBUs? Let us know how it comes out.

 

[Kickass]

While the spices seem reasonable individually, the totality might be a lot. I’d add all those spices to a jar of vodka and let it infuse for a couple weeks then dose the finished beer with that at time of packing. Spices are one component that can completely ruin a beer if overdone.

 

[G_robertus]

Depending on the brand of biscuit I would cut it in half, maybe even quarter it. It can come over very strongly in my opinion. English variants (amber malt) seem a bit less harsh than Belgian, but I might be biased. I would only use a pound in an imperial stout regardless. I'd also at least half the oats. At most they'll destroy head retention and make your beer overly slick. You could try flaked barley, oat malt or rye as suggested previously if you really need extra mouthfeel.
You can play around with some of the roasted malt as well, because it's not really a stout now. I would want some bite from the malt, so I would add probably a bit of black or chocolate malt for complexity and bite. Special B is also a good suggestion, but I'm not sure it fits the idea. I've never tried lebkuchen and I don't know how Special B plays together with this amount of spice.

Regarding spices, make tinctures. It's easier to dose and you won't regret adding too much in the boil. It's more work making many different tinctures, but you'll have optimal control in the end. Extraction rates also vary between spices, so doing it separately is safer. Another option is Belgomalt Gingerbread cookie malt if you can source it. The stuff is quite powerful though, so don't go over 10-15%. I'd err on the low side and adjust with tinctures as necessary.

 

[CrissCross]

If anyone is interested, this is what I ended up for the final recipe. It made a nice spiced beer that really resembled the german gingerbread cookie. I think I would add more chocolate Malt or up the chocolate flavor next time a tad....

Lebkuchengewürz Stout - 5gal Batch

- Malts -
8lb Vienna
2lb Rye Malt
1lb Caramel / Crystal 60L
1lb Biscuit malt
1lb Chocolate Malt
8oz Special B


- Yeast -
Lallemand Abbaye

- 30 minute boil -
1oz Northern Brewer @ 30min
1lb Lactose @5min

- Spice Tincture added after fermentation -
2 Whole Star Anise
4 Whole Cinnamon Stick
4 Whole Cloves
1 tsp Ginger
1 tsp allspice
1 teaspoon coriander
1 teaspoon cardamom
1 teaspoon nutmeg
400ml Vodka