Latest DIPA - Pitching Conan like the Alchemist does for Heady Topper

[ianmatth]

For my latest DIPA I’m under-pitching at 0.44 million cells/ml/plato as per how the Alchemist underpitches Heady Topper. I’m also going to raise the temperature at 24, 48, 72, and 96 hours after active fermentation as the Alchemist does.

3 Gallons:
8 lbs Pale Malt
6 oz Caramalt
2 oz Acidulated Malt
16 g Gypsum

Mash at 146* for 60 minutes in 4 gallons water.
Step mash at 153* for 20 minutes with additional 2 gallons acidic water.

7 ml IBU injector @ 90 minutes
1 oz Simcoe, 1/2 oz CTZ, 1/2 oz Belma, 1/4 oz Centennial, 1/4 oz Citra, 1/4 oz El Dorado, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet @ 3 minutes
Same @ 185*-170*-212* (accidentally left burner on) @ 15 minutes
2 oz Simcoe, 1 oz Belma, 1/2 oz Centennial, 1/2 oz Citra, 1/2 oz El Dorado, 1/2 Apollo, 1/2 oz Summit, 1/2 oz Comet @ 90 minute 160-145* aroma steep

1.060 OG, pitched ~75 billion cells Conan yeast

24 hours after pitching the yeast things are just getting started. Because of my mistake I ended up using a ridiculous amount of hops, and even with using a hop bag there is all kind of hop trub floating at the top, so that may affect the fermentation. Set temperature to 66* and will raise by a degree each day. Heady Topper supposedly goes from 1.073 to 1.034 in the first 24 hours. We'll see how mine does.

 

[ianmatth]

Gravity is down to 1.032 after 24 hours. Raised temperature to 67*.

 

[rnm410]

Any idea why that pitch rate? I can only think of a few linked to off flavors.

 

[Ruckusz28]

Wow that's a hop salad! Can you pick up on any of the hop flavor? It seems to me like it would be all over the place on the palate.

 

[khillian]

Interested in seeing how this turns out!

 

[rnm410]

Any idea why that pitch rate? I can only think of a few linked to off flavors.

Sulphur dioxide is an anti-oxidant produced
during fermentation. The levels of naturally
occurring SO2 can be boosted during
fermentation by deceasing yeast growth
through:
Lower fermentation temperatures
Reduced wort aeration
Reduced pitching rate
Reduced original gravity
Increased sulphate additions to the mash
Producing bright worts

 

[ianmatth]

Gravity is down to 1.010. Maybe all the hops helped it out.

Added dry hop:
1 oz Simcoe, 1/2 oz CTZ, 1/2 oz Belma, 1/4 oz Centennial, 1/4 oz Citra, 1/4 oz El Dorado, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet

 

[Ruckusz28]

This inspired me to try out some Conan. I landed some of the Omega variety. I've been mainly doing 2.5 gallon batches as of late while working on recipes.. it makes everything go much further and its not a big deal if a batch is a total loss.

You said that you under-pitched this batch. Have you tried this recipe with a full pitch of yeast to have a comparison to finished result?

By what means are you controlling fermentation temperatures?

Belma is a hop that's been intriguing me as of late. What is your take on this hop?

 

[masonsjax]

Enthusiasm for Belma has been low. There are several threads dedicated to discussing that variety. I like it for bittering personally, but aroma is almost nonexistant IME.

 

[robopp]

Gravity is down to 1.010. Maybe all the hops helped it out.

Added dry hop:
1 oz Simcoe, 1/2 oz CTZ, 1/2 oz Belma, 1/4 oz Centennial, 1/4 oz Citra, 1/4 oz El Dorado, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet

Did you get any Belgian notes at these fermentation temperature? I accidentally fermented a blonde ale using Conan too warm (70F I think) and it now tastes like a light Belgian ale. Not bad, but not intended either.

 

[ianmatth]

I have pitched at 0.75 (standard) and 1.0 (suggested for OG over 1.060) with great results. I have a chest freezer to control temperature these days. I used to use one of those Cool Brewing things in the past.

I actually made a thread rating over 30 hops for dry hopping (using Conan yeast) and Belma is my favorite: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=448562&page=2
Update is on page 2. masonsjax likes it too, I guess he feels differently about Belma though.

The only time I got Belgian notes was when the temperature went over 70*, and once primary fermentation is done it won't be an issue, but I would advise bottle conditioning under 70* for the first few days as well.

 

[masonsjax]

I actually made a thread rating over 30 hops for dry hopping (using Conan yeast) and Belma is my favorite: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=448562&page=2
Update is on page 2. masonsjax likes it too, I guess he feels differently about Belma though.

Yep, great thread. It did surprise me to see belma top the list though. To be clear, Belma has a fantastic flavor and aroma, but my experience has been that it takes an insane amount of it to get a good level of aroma compared to other varieties.

 

[chato]

Gravity is down to 1.010. Maybe all the hops helped it out.

Added dry hop:
1 oz Simcoe, 1/2 oz CTZ, 1/2 oz Belma, 1/4 oz Centennial, 1/4 oz Citra, 1/4 oz El Dorado, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet

Wow - 9 varieties into the dry hop! It looks like the fermentation went perfectly despite the low pitch rate. With that OG, I'm guessing it'll finish a little lower still. Are you doing a cold crash?

 

[AK7007]

I'm a big proponent of using "low" pitch rates for super hoppy beers. Hop compounds stick to yeast, and in theory having a lower pitch rate can keep more hop compounds in your beer and less stuck onto a yeast cell. Haven't noticed any off-flavors as a result.

 

[BuglessDuster]

I'm brewing a DIPA or IIPA, and am dry hopping with 10 oz. of hops. Maybe that's overkill, but I'm going for an Enjoy By-like Imperial IPA.

 

[ianmatth]

I actually started cold crashing on Wednesday, pulled the dry hop bag out on Friday, and will bottle tonight.

10 oz of dry hops is expensive, but you will definitely get great flavor. I actually did 3 Heady Topper clones using 11 oz of dry hops for a triple dry hop as I read the recipe wrong. I can get a great DIPA with a single dry hop at about 1 oz/gallon, but a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th dry hop at 1/2 oz/gallon will make it a little better.

 

[ianmatth]

Bottled. All the hops must have been throwing off the gravity because FG is actually 1.012 now that I crashed out a lot of the trub.

 

[BrewSRQ]

Did you adjust for the temp? A 1.010 reading at 70 with a hydrometer calibrated at 60 would be slightly lower than actual.

 

[rupert130]

I'm a big proponent of using "low" pitch rates for super hoppy beers. Hop compounds stick to yeast, and in theory having a lower pitch rate can keep more hop compounds in your beer and less stuck onto a yeast cell. Haven't noticed any off-flavors as a result.

A lower pitch rate, as I understand it, does not mean there will be less yeast in the finished product. It just means that there will be more growth of new cells. If you count every individual cell, you should have a similar amount at the end of fermentation no matter what the pitch rate is.

 

[brewski09]

A lower pitch rate, as I understand it, does not mean there will be less yeast in the finished product. It just means that there will be more growth of new cells. If you count every individual cell, you should have a similar amount at the end of fermentation no matter what the pitch rate is.

And more yeast character as the bulk of yeast flavors are produced in the first 2-3 days (active yeast replication and active fermentation)

 

[chato]

Bottled. All the hops must have been throwing off the gravity because FG is actually 1.012 now that I crashed out a lot of the trub.

I'm surprised it finished that high. Although, 10% of the fermentables in the Heady Topper recipe is corn sugar, which I didn't see in your recipe. The corn sugar should result in a drier beer with a lower FG.

 

[robopp]

I'm surprised it finished that high. Although, 10% of the fermentables in the Heady Topper recipe is corn sugar, which I didn't see in your recipe. The corn sugar should result in a drier beer with a lower FG.

Where'd you get 10% of HT is corn sugar? I just made the clone and used 7% and I thought I was using more than normal due to my attenuation issues. Unfortunately, the thing only got down to 1.014

 

[ianmatth]

So I did this again for a 6 gallon batch that is a little closer to the Heady Topper clone:

6 Gallons:
13.5 lbs Pearl Malt
12 oz Caramalt
4 oz Acidulated Malt
20 g Gypsum

Mash at 144* for 60 minutes in 7.5 gallons water.
Step mash at 155* for 20 minutes with additional 2.5 gallons acidic water.

11 ml IBU injector @ 90 minutes
1/2 oz Simcoe, 1/4 oz CTZ, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet @ 5 minutes
1 oz Simcoe, 3/4 oz CTZ, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet @ Flame out
1 oz Simcoe, 3/4 oz CTZ, 1/2 oz Belma, 1/2 oz Centennial, 1/4 oz Citra, 1/4 oz El Dorado, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet @ 45 minute 165* aroma steep

1.063 OG, pitched ~150 billion cells Conan yeast

 

[robopp]

So I did this again for a 6 gallon batch that is a little closer to the Heady Topper clone:

6 Gallons:
13.5 lbs Pearl Malt
12 oz Caramalt
4 oz Acidulated Malt
20 g Gypsum

Mash at 144* for 60 minutes in 7.5 gallons water.
Step mash at 155* for 20 minutes with additional 2.5 gallons acidic water.

11 ml IBU injector @ 90 minutes
1/2 oz Simcoe, 1/4 oz CTZ, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet @ 5 minutes
1 oz Simcoe, 3/4 oz CTZ, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet @ Flame out
1 oz Simcoe, 3/4 oz CTZ, 1/2 oz Belma, 1/2 oz Centennial, 1/4 oz Citra, 1/4 oz El Dorado, 1/4 Apollo, 1/4 oz Summit, 1/4 oz Comet @ 45 minute 165* aroma steep

1.063 OG, pitched ~150 billion cells Conan yeast

I'm interested to hear how this turns out. How did you last experiment turn out? Did you notice anything different in the final beer when pitching the recommended amount and not increasing the temperature by a degree each day?

 

[ianmatth]

The 3 gallon batch turned out great, probably a little higher in the actual IBUs than the HT clone or my usual DIPAs from all the late addition hops, but I think the attenuation was perfect.

As for this batch, I think I under-pitched significantly lower than 0.44 (didn't wait for the yeast to compact as I normally do) so it is going pretty slow. I have it at 68* and it is only down to 1.040 at this point. It's still going, but this may be the first time Conan ends up finishing high in well over 20 beers I have used it in. If I can get it down to 1.014 it may be a good experiment to see the effect of pitching super low, but I do think 0.44 is where it's at.

 

[ianmatth]

Gravity is down to 1.030, raised temperature to 69, will raise to 70 tomorrow and see where things are at in 3 days.

 

[ianmatth]

Gravity is only down to 1.025. Going to add a pack or two of US-05. I really think I pitched around 0.3 on this rather than 0.44. The previous beer I did turned out great.

 

[ianmatth]

Gravity was down to 1.020 two days after adding 11.5g of US-05 so I added the first dry hop:
1 oz Simcoe, 1 oz CTZ, 1/2 oz Belma, 1/2 oz Centennial, 1/2 oz Citra, 1/2 oz El Dorado, 1/2 Apollo, 1/2 oz Summit, 1/2 oz Comet

Five days later gravity was down to 1.006 so I added the 2nd dry hop and dropped to 40* since I will be out of town for almost 2 weeks:
1 oz Simcoe leaf, 1 oz Citra leaf, 1/4 oz CTZ leaf, 1/4 oz Centennial leaf, 1/4 oz Apollo leaf

 

[Ruckusz28]

WOW that sucker is dry!

 

[ianmatth]

I had some of the most recent iteration that I had bottled before adding the 2nd dry hop. Tasted very thin, definitely no where near as good as the first beer in this thread where I hit that 0.44 pitching target and didn't have to add US-05 to finish it. The truth is I probably didn't have to add US-05 to finish this one either, and I imagine it would have probably tasted better if I didn't. Anyway, no need to post more in this thread, pitching Conan at 0.44 and raising the temperature by 1 degree per day definitely results in a great IPA.

 

[robopp]

I actually tried the 66F starting temp and raise by 1 degree per day on a pale ale. It ended up with A LOT of undesired Belgian character. I'm letting it sit in the keg for a couple more weeks, but I put a bunch of Citra and Nelson in it and I literally cannot taste either though the Belgian esters.

 

[ianmatth]

I don't get Belgian esters unless I go above 70*. How are you measuring temperature and how tight is your temperature control?

 

[robopp]

I don't get Belgian esters unless I go above 70*. How are you measuring temperature and how tight is your temperature control?

Temperature control is pretty good. I have a fridge that's controlled using a Johnson temp controller. The temperature probe is taped to the fermenter and covered with insulation. There's also a fermometer affixed to the fermenter and I'm always keeping an eye on the temperature to make sure it's hanging around (+/- 1 degree) the desired temperature. This pitch is on it's 6+ iteration though so maybe it's time to ditch it?

 

[ianmatth]

Maybe try the same technique, but start at 63*.