Late Grain Additions

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RedL

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I am preparing to attempt a BIAB Irish stout. I have worked out a simple recipe on Beersmith, (6lbs Marris Otter, 2lbs Flaked Barley, 1lb Roasted Barley). I was just going to mash everything together, but am seeing a lot of talk about adding the roasted grains towards the end of the mash to prevent astringency or harsh flavors.

Does adding the roasted grain late in the mash change my brewhouse efficiency and target OG? I see no options in Beersmith to add grains at different times in the mash and want to make sure I calculate this correctly. Am I getting the same amount of fermentable sugars mashing it 15 minutes vs 60?
 
I don't use roasted barley in my stouts, so not 100% sure here, but 1# for that recipe seems high to me (over 10% of the grist). Also, 2# of flaked barley is a LOT. Hope you plan on using rice hulls in your mash. I've had minor issues with 5% of the grist being flaked barley. The next stout I make is going to have half of that in it. These are recipes using 18-19# of grain total.
 
I don't use roasted barley in my stouts, so not 100% sure here, but 1# for that recipe seems high to me (over 10% of the grist). Also, 2# of flaked barley is a LOT. Hope you plan on using rice hulls in your mash. I've had minor issues with 5% of the grist being flaked barley. The next stout I make is going to have half of that in it. These are recipes using 18-19# of grain total.

I’m still tweaking the recipe and am going to pull back a bit on the roasted barley. I don’t want to overpower it. That’s what led me to my questions above about adding it late in the mash and how that effects efficiency.
 
Almost all of the contribution from the roast barley will be unfermentable, so don't sweat the math on that. I haven't used the technique myself, but I believe what people who do it is "cold brew" the dark grains (roast) and add the "tea" to the wort, not the grain.
 
Does adding the roasted grain late in the mash change my brewhouse efficiency and target OG? I see no options in Beersmith to add grains at different times in the mash and want to make sure I calculate this correctly. Am I getting the same amount of fermentable sugars mashing it 15 minutes vs 60?

Dark grains don't go through conversion, so brewhouse efficiency and OG will not be affected by late additions.
 
If you add dark grains late in the mash, consider what that will do to the mash pH and take steps to adjust as necessary.
 
To oversimplify my response
1) that is a lot of roasted barley for my taste. May want to sub out .5 lbs with carafa I (dehusked) or even pale chocolate (yum). Roast is of course appropriate in a stout, but that is a lot.

2) no appreciable fermentables from roast. Yeah, there is some, but dont count on much.

3) since I fly sparge, I put the roasted barley in at end of mash. Plenty of flavor and color comes through.

4) a lot of flaked barley. Add a pound of Maris Otter and drop a pound of flaked barley.
 
To oversimplify my response
1) that is a lot of roasted barley for my taste. May want to sub out .5 lbs with carafa I (dehusked) or even pale chocolate (yum). Roast is of course appropriate in a stout, but that is a lot.

2) no appreciable fermentables from roast. Yeah, there is some, but dont count on much.

3) since I fly sparge, I put the roasted barley in at end of mash. Plenty of flavor and color comes through.

4) a lot of flaked barley. Add a pound of Maris Otter and drop a pound of flaked barley.

Brewed it today! Yeah, I backed off on the roasted barley and flaked barley and came up on the marris otter.
 
I’m still tweaking the recipe and am going to pull back a bit on the roasted barley.

11% roasted barley is not too much for a Dry Irish Stout, especially when it's the only roasted grain. If in doubt, I'd suggest looking at a few NHC medal winning recipes for some calibration.
 
11% roasted barley is not too much for a Dry Irish Stout, especially when it's the only roasted grain. If in doubt, I'd suggest looking at a few NHC medal winning recipes for some calibration.

I pulled it back to 10%. The only thing I couldn’t nail down is the actual color of the grain. It’s called Black Roasted Barley from Crisp. There seems to be a discrepancy on whether it’s 700 lovibond or 500. If it’s 700 it might be a little strong. Guess I’ll find out in a few weeks.
 
The only thing I couldn’t nail down is the actual color of the grain. It’s called Black Roasted Barley from Crisp. There seems to be a discrepancy on whether it’s 700 lovibond or 500. If it’s 700 it might be a little strong.

Per Crisp's own "Typical Analysis" sheet, their Roasted Barley is 450-550L, the same color as their Black Malt. AFAIK, they don't make a product called Black Roasted Barley, though I could imagine a vendor calling it that.
 
Per Crisp's own "Typical Analysis" sheet, their Roasted Barley is 450-550L, the same color as their Black Malt. AFAIK, they don't make a product called Black Roasted Barley, though I could imagine a vendor calling it that.
Yeah, they keep the Breiss light roasted barley and this stuff. I contacted Crisp and they said they didn’t make anything that dark. I plugged 500 into Beersmith and am hoping for the best. Funny thing is, the Crisp Roasted Barley in Beersmith shows a higher number. Maybe they used to make it darker.
 
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