Late Extract Additions

[N5629]

It's been recommended to me that when brewing with extract, a lighter color can be achieved by withholding some quantity of the ME and putting it in at 30 minutes into the boil, or so. How does this affect the bittering process? Does one have to account for this with quantity and timing with hops or is it just business as usual?

To date I've made three extract beers that were supposed to be lighter in color - under 15 SRM by BrewSmith - and all have turned out somewhere in the 20's. So, I wanna brew a lighter colored beer, I wanna I wanna I wanna. Also, I'd dig it if this lighter colored beer tasted right. I don't trust myself to pull off both without some more information, so any help with this would be appreciated.

 

[LovetheHops]

I am in the middle of a brew where i held half the extract for the last 20 minutes of the boil. The color is very light. This batch is not rready yet though, so I don't know how the flavor will be affected. However, I have read that there is a risk of additional bittering from this technique. Below is what I read.


"Late extract additions do present one challenge for the brewer. Late extract additions increase the bitterness of the beer. Predicting the International Bitterness Units (IBUs) of late extract additions to match your target style is mathematically complex. Most brewing software and spreadsheets are simply not designed to handle multiple hop and late malt extract additions in the boil. The gravity and bitterness of the boil will vary with each ingredient added.

To do the calculation by hand you would need to calculate the gravity of the boil at each stage, bitterness contribution from each hop addition taking this gravity into account and then combine these into one overall IBU number for the brew. To compensate, some brewers use a “rule of thumb” such as “reduce hops by 20% when using late extract brews”. Another method is to calculate the hops addition without the late extract and then add 5-10% more hops to compensate for lower utilization during the last 15 minutes of the boil."

 

[BlackCoffeeandBourbon]

I gave this a shot last night when I added the bulk of my LME with only 5 minutes left in the boil (per the recipe I used). I then let it sit for 15 minutes, then cooled. I was shooting for an OG of 1.054 and came up with 1.055. I'll let you know how things turn out in 6 weeks or so.

 

[Grinder12000]

Rule of thumb - put in 1/3 of your LME into the boil for the entire 60 minutes. THis will do two things.

1. It will make the Gravity CLOSE to 1.040 which will help Hop utilization.
2. Will keep the majority of the LME from caramelizing (because you are not boiling 2/3s of it)

Then with 10 minutes to go add the rest of the LME. This will sterilize it and will not impact the bitterness that much PLUS will not add THAT much to the color. I would not worry about the extra bitterness.

What you CAN do is boil two 1/2 batches. THIS is what IO do now so it's like a full boil - the only problem is cold crashing in two sinks. Also the hot breaks when boy pots decided to try to boil over at once can get dicey!

 

[impulserush]

so i would put the DME in at the beginning? leave the 2/3 LME till last 10 to 15 min. of boil?

Rule of thumb - put in 1/3 of your LME into
the boil for the entire 60 minutes. THis will do two things.

1. It will make the Gravity CLOSE to 1.040 which will help Hop utilization.
2. Will keep the majority of the LME from caramelizing (because you are not boiling 2/3s of it)

Then with 10 minutes to go add the rest of the LME. This will sterilize it and will not impact the bitterness that much PLUS will not add THAT much to the color. I would not worry about the extra bitterness.

What you CAN do is boil two 1/2 batches. THIS is what IO do now so it's like a full boil - the only problem is cold crashing in two sinks. Also the hot breaks when boy pots decided to try to boil over at once can get dicey!

 

[Beernewb]

my austin homebrew came out crazy bitter by reducing hops and LME to 1/3 at 60 and 2/3 at 15. Hopefully it will correct itself in the carboy, but i don't have high hopes for this one after tasting the sample for my SG.

sucks too, it was my first mini mash and I had high hopes i'd be reducing that extract "twang".

 

[APendejo]

I gave up trying to make lighter colored extract brews. After nearly making a couple of batches of "quinine" ale by trying the late addition method I am not so excited about doing that anymore.
AP

 

[goplayoutside]

I have had good luck with late extract additions, although I do them do avoid the goofy tastes that come from caramelization ("extract twang"); I am less concerned about my beer's appearance. That said, caramelization is the main cause of both the twang and the over-darkenning, so if it's helping my beer taste normal it should help yours look the way you want.

You are correct that the hop utilization will be different. In addition to the rule-of-thumb methods, Beersmith can do the math for you (I take it you know this after quoting their website). If you think you will continue brewing and have any interest in formulating your own recipes, the software is a good value (and the trial version is free for a a month or so, so you could play with it and see what kinds of things it comes up with when you modify your current recipes for late extract addition before deciding if you want to pay the twenty bucks and keep it).

Or if you have a specific recipe that you need modified, you could post it and I could make some suggestions.

Here is a link to some guy's blog showing pics of how the color of his beer got lighter when he switched to late extract additions. He was brewing an IPA -- you could get the color lighter that that if you did a lower gravity brew.

Good luck!

 

[gxm]

I have also had very good experience with late extract additions, adding the extract at knockout. I've done it to improve my hop utilization and lighten the colors of my brews.

I've been doing partial mashes, and hopping with the mashed wort in 3 gallons volume. The hop additions really aren't that hard. Just measure your boil gravity & plug it in here - Hop Calculator

 

[N5629]

Is there a way to configure a recipe for late additions in BeerSmith? I can't seem to find one.

 

[bdnoona]

Are late extract additions recommended for full boils or just partial boils? Wouldn't the extract being in 5 full gallons already dilute it enough to get the desired hop utilization and reduce the chances of the Malliard reaction?

Thanks.
Brian

 

[Bob]

Are late extract additions recommended for full boils or just partial boils? Wouldn't the extract being in 5 full gallons already dilute it enough to get the desired hop utilization and reduce the chances of the Malliard reaction?

Thanks.
Brian

I don't see a point to late addition with full boil, though I'm sure there's someone practicing it. It's only really useful with partial boils, to avoid concentrating the wort excessively.

Bob

 

[Kugster]

I recently did the late addition to my full boil...didn't care for it (wasn't sure about the partial/full boil thing either). The reason why I don't care for it is that it is much more work & time comsuming...taking it off the flame and then getting it back to boiling...probably added 15 mins to the process. Now that BobNQ3X said about not haveing to do that in a full boil...I will not do it again. I have never really worried all that much about the darkness of my beer, just as long as it is good to drink, I'm cool wit dat!!

 

[goplayoutside]

Is there a way to configure a recipe for late additions in BeerSmith? I can't seem to find one.

Yes, there is. After you add a dry or liquid extract item to the recipe, double-click on it. There should be a little checkbox (initially un-checked) that says "late extract boil for..." Just click it and enter the time before boil's end that you plan on making the addition (default is 15 minutes). I think you can also do it when you are first adding the ingredient. Beersmith will then do the bittering math.

Are late extract additions recommended for full boils or just partial boils? Wouldn't the extract being in 5 full gallons already dilute it enough to get the desired hop utilization and reduce the chances of the Malliard reaction?

Late extract additions will make the biggest difference in partial boils. A full boil should keep you more or less in the clear w/ regard to avoiding caramelization but doing a late addition will still help your hop utilization.

I am thinking that rather than thinking about what is the "right" way to do things, maybe the late extract addition (or lack thereof) should be viewed as a tool to be used creatively to work towards making beer you like. Personally my limited experience is that it produces beers that are lighter colored and taste cleaner with less aging, which for some styles is what I want (for example, my house ale is a moderate-gravity English Pale and seems to benefit from the late addition). For my porter, though, maybe it makes no difference and it's just another thing to worry about. And maybe if I was doing a bock or scottish ale, some wort caramelization would be in character with the style.

The only way to find out what it does for your recipes and your tastes is to brew and try it! However, like other tools, it's difficult to evaluate the effect unless you have something to compare it to. I think it's a good idea to brew a recipe that you are familiar with and modify it for the late addition but try to keep everything else more or less the same.

 

[homebrewer_99]

I've been doing small boils and late additions since the '90s...then found out someone "discovered" this process in 2002...interesting...

Anyway, check Papzian's TCJOHB Hop Utilization chart. If you keep you gravity about 1.040 (1.045 according to BYO) you can maximize your bitterness extraction.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

my austin homebrew came out crazy bitter by reducing hops and LME to 1/3 at 60 and 2/3 at 15. Hopefully it will correct itself in the carboy, but i don't have high hopes for this one after tasting the sample for my SG.

sucks too, it was my first mini mash and I had high hopes i'd be reducing that extract "twang".

Which kit was it?
Forrest

 

[Beernewb]

it was the Special Holiday Ale...

I got too caught up in the late addition crowd trying to reduce that twanginess I have been getting in my finished beers.

After tasting the hyrometer sample, i'll opt for the twang....it was really bitter-everything about the brew went according to pan, i simply reduced the LME at 60 minutes as well as the initial hops.

Which kit was it?
Forrest

 

[uncleozzy]

it was the Special Holiday Ale...

Give it time. I did the extract version of the kit, and added most of the extract late. Every sample for the first three weeks in primary tasted awful--too bitter, too sweet, too spicy. Then during week four it turned into ambrosia. SWMBO said she'd drink the whole bucket flat and at room temperature. Haven't opened a bottle yet, but the final sample says it ought to be goooooood.

 

[noremorse1]

I will caution those brewing recipes where slight carmelization of the wort is desired such as a Scottish Ale. In fact, this is maybe the only style I can think of that does not lend itself well to a late extract addition.

 

[Austinhomebrew]

it was the Special Holiday Ale...

I got too caught up in the late addition crowd trying to reduce that twanginess I have been getting in my finished beers.

After tasting the hyrometer sample, i'll opt for the twang....it was really bitter-everything about the brew went according to pan, i simply reduced the LME at 60 minutes as well as the initial hops.

You did nothing wrong and the beer will turn out fine. Anytime you add a lot of spices (hops are a spice as well) it will take much longer to taste correct. The Special holiday ale take at least a month in the bottles to start tasting good. Your best bottle will be the last one.

Forrest

 

[Beernewb]

Thanks Forrest/Uncleozzy,

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[bhughes]

Is there a difference in adding the remaing portion of the DME in the last 5 or 10 minutes versus waiting till the very end and letting it sit for 15 minutes?
It seems that if you added 2/3 of your DME during the boil, this would lower the temp of the water and it would no longer be boiling, so if this was done before the entire 60 minutes, how would this affect the hop utilization? It seems to make more sense adding the DME after the boil is done so that the hops got the full amount of time boiling.....