Late DME/LME addition on an IPA

[murphness]

Hi Folks,

I've tried searching a bunch, but nothing is really answering my exact situation.

Here's the story.

I'm brewing a 5gal batch of IPA with 4 different (boiling) hop additions. The main bittering hop is Chinook.

I'm now constrained to my kitchen, which is small and I don't have an over oven exhaust fan. I'm wondering if my crazy idea will pay off. I'm hoping if it does work that I can reproduce for all of my winter extract batches.

Boil 1.5 gals of of water with about a 1/4 of the DME and LME added and then add my hop additions on the regular schedule. I'll whirlpool at FO and add the remaining hops and extracts, then cool the wort to temp and add ~3 gals of tap water into carboy. Once to desired temp I'll funnel the wort into the carboy and then top off with tap water to get to 5 gals.

Anyone see any issues with this? Any ideas to make it better? If it sounds alright it would really make things so much easier in my small apartment...

Thanks for any advice!

Cheers,

Murphness

 

[m3n00b]

It will work. You need to make sure its hot enough to pastuerize and dissolve all of the extract. Don't scorch it. Make sure its completely dissolved before heating. Maybe use 2 pots. You will get less hop utilization with that small of a boil volume.

 

[TopgunTango]

LME typically does not need to be sanitized or pasteurized as it is essentially concentrated wort and has already been boiled and hot-poured into a sealed container. Adding in the bulk of the malt extract later will up your hop utilization and make your beer bitterer, although not necessarily more aromatic or flavorful. If you want something balanced yet slightly bitterer, then I would do exactly what you described.

It all depends on what you want the end result to be, really… Do you want to have a very bitter or a very flavorful, aromatic IPA? It is difficult to get the best of both worlds out of extracts, as the already concentrated wort will muddle your beer if you boil all of it for the full 60 minutes.

Also, if you are using a pre-hopped LME, do not boil it.

 

[duboman]

Not sure how you arrive at a 5 gallon batch if you start with only 1.5 gallons to boil and top off with 3 gallons???

You will lose close to a gallon of your original 1.5 in a 60 minute boil, possibly scorch whatever extract you've added and wind up a thick syrup like mess and an over carmelized wort, IMO..........

Now, if you start with say 3-4 gallons and proceed from there I can see it working well, you are then basically running a traditional extract kit process for a 5 gallon batch.

 

[murphness]

Not sure how you arrive at a 5 gallon batch if you start with only 1.5 gallons to boil and top off with 3 gallons???

You will lose close to a gallon of your original 1.5 in a 60 minute boil, possibly scorch whatever extract you've added and wind up a thick syrup like mess and an over carmelized wort, IMO..........

Now, if you start with say 3-4 gallons and proceed from there I can see it working well, you are then basically running a traditional extract kit process for a 5 gallon batch.

So the intent was to top off the wort once added to the carboy to get to 5 gallons.

The boil-off is a good point and I hadn't taken that into consideration. What if I add water throughout? I'd like to stick to a 3 gallon pot if possible...

RE Bittering: What if I added that addition at 30 mins? Or alternatively used 25% less?

 

[VikingChrisColby]

The problem I see here is that you need to squeeze all the hop bitterness of a 5-gallon IPA into 1.5 gallons of wort. If you wanted 5 gallons of IPA at 60 IBUs, you'd need 1.5 gallons of wort at 200 IBUs — and you can't boil hops and get iso-alpha acids concentrations that high.
Your best option might be to make your wort in shifts and add it to your fermenter as you go. If you could boil a little over 1.5 gallons, you could make 5 gallons of wort in 3 shifts. A pain, sure, but it would work (and your beer quality would likely go up from performing a full-wrot boil). You could also consider scaling down your batch size. Obviously, there's a down side to that as well, but again your beer quality would likely improve.

Here's an article on making extract worts for American pale ales, IPAs and dIPAs that might help:
http://beerandwinejournal.com/hoppy-extract-wort-production/

That article comes from a series of articles that starts here:
http://beerandwinejournal.com/pale-hoppy-ales-intro/


Chris Colby
Editor
beerandwinejournal.com

 

[TexanRudeboy]

The problem I see here is that you need to squeeze all the hop bitterness of a 5-gallon IPA into 1.5 gallons of wort. If you wanted 5 gallons of IPA at 60 IBUs, you'd need 1.5 gallons of wort at 200 IBUs — and you can't boil hops and get iso-alpha acids concentrations that high.
Your best option might be to make your wort in shifts and add it to your fermenter as you go. If you could boil a little over 1.5 gallons, you could make 5 gallons of wort in 3 shifts. A pain, sure, but it would work (and your beer quality would likely go up from performing a full-wrot boil). You could also consider scaling down your batch size. Obviously, there's a down side to that as well, but again your beer quality would likely improve.

Here's an article on making extract worts for American pale ales, IPAs and dIPAs that might help:
http://beerandwinejournal.com/hoppy-extract-wort-production/

That article comes from a series of articles that starts here:
http://beerandwinejournal.com/pale-hoppy-ales-intro/


Chris Colby
Editor
beerandwinejournal.com

Neither of those articles reference anything related to his issues or what you stated. Please don't spam your own journal.

Besides, some of the info is kind of unnecessary. To get more fermentable extract wort there is no need to "steep" your extract with grains. Just replace some of your extract with table sugar.

 

[TopgunTango]

Neither of those articles reference anything related to his issues or what you stated. Please don't spam your own journal.

Besides, some of the info is kind of unnecessary. To get more fermentable extract wort there is no need to "steep" your extract with grains. Just replace some of your extract with table sugar.

I would probably use dextrose rather than regular, refined table sugar, tho. It will dissolve into solution better, as your wort is already nearly saturated.

 

[murphness]

So is it worth it to try and make this batch on my kitchen stove with a 10 qt pot? I've almost kicked the keg with the first go around of this and I need something on deck quick! The 1st batch came out WAY better than I expected, but I brewed it outside where I have a wort chiller, hose, propane burner, etc... I want to try doing it in my kitchen...

Am I crazy?!?

 

[TopgunTango]

So is it worth it to try and make this batch on my kitchen stove with a 10 qt pot? I've almost kicked the keg with the first go around of this and I need something on deck quick! The 1st batch came out WAY better than I expected, but I brewed it outside where I have a wort chiller, hose, propane burner, etc... I want to try doing it in my kitchen... Am I crazy?!?

You're not crazy. You can easily do this on the stove, you just won't get nearly as much out of your hops as you can't boil the entire batch. You can still use your wort chiller inside granted you have the proper fittings.

Alternatively, you can make a sort of hop tea by boiling the hops alone and topping off your fermenter with it. I've done it before and it works okay if you have no other means of doing your hop additions. Again, LME and DME do not need to be boiled.

 

[m3n00b]

My lhbs gets lme from 55g drums and seals it into baggies(Midwest does this iirc). Not sure I would take that risk of infection no matter how small it might be. I would still try to get it up to 160 to kill anything that got in there.


Op-you don't have anymore pots you can boil at the same time?

 

[murphness]

I have 2 10 quart pots, so maybe splitting them and doing a gallon and a half in each is the right call. Part of my thought process was to be able to cool it faster too and basically make a super concentrated wort and then add the water and not have to ice bath it as long.

Maybe I should just suck it up and brew outside...The last batch came out so freakin good, it'd be a HUGE disappointment if this one came out crappy...

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has done any really small and concentrated extract boils because of space/equipment constraints.

 

[duboman]

If you have an outdoor setup then use it and brew your beer. You don't have a location associated with your profile but I live in the Chicago area and I brew year round outside, bundle up, and get on it

There are plenty of threads regarding cold weather brewing with lots of tips, it's not really a bad day.

 

[murphness]

I'm in Boston. And not in a suburb as most people who live in a 40 mi radius of Boston claim to live in "Boston". I live on the third floor of a triple decker, so outdoor space is limited and cleanup is a PITA... Basically no access to water as it's shut off, and when I clean carboys I make a giant ice slick for my elderly landlords...

Making this inside saves me A LOT of trouble...

 

[DurtyChemist]

I'd boil just some DME and melt the LME in another pot if possible. I hate LME though.

 

[unionrdr]

It'll be tough with even two 2.5 gallon pots. I got tired of that by my 2nd brew & went shopping. I found a nested set of 4 polished SS kettles with lids & strainer trays for some $25 at Giant eagle. They go from about 1.5G to 5G in size. Still using that same 5G (20qt) kettle for everything up to PB/PM BIAB atm. I got aftermarket replacement heating coils for our electric stove on amazon that can heat 3.5 gallons of wort from mash temp to boiling in about 18 minutes. Even a 2.5 gallon boil works better than 1.5G. 1.5 is cutting it a bit close imo. Time for a trade up.
You also mentioned in the first post about adding remaining hops & extracts at flame out. I hope you're referring to aroma hops at that point,cause that's about all you'll get from them.

 

[Nummey]

I'm in Boston. And not in a suburb as most people who live in a 40 mi radius of Boston claim to live in "Boston". I live on the third floor of a triple decker, so outdoor space is limited and cleanup is a PITA... Basically no access to water as it's shut off, and when I clean carboys I make a giant ice slick for my elderly landlords...

Making this inside saves me A LOT of trouble...

I'm in Central Mass and made an extract batch outside in my driveway this past weekend - it was in the low 20's but there's something to be said about bundling up and making your own beer outside. I steeped the grains in the kitchen and boiled outside. You can do this! The only water you'll need is for sanitizing your fermenter and for an ice bath to cool your wort...why not use your kitchen sink for the water?
Otherwise you can go to a store like Ocean State Job lot or Christmas Tree shops and get yourself a 5 gallon pot for under $20 and do a partial boil of say 3 to 3.5 gallons inside. Just point a regular fan at the pot to blow the steam out the window.
Good luck

 

[murphness]

Ok, I ended up biting the bullet and getting a 5 gal stainless pot. The 10 gal I have barely fits on my stove...

Brew day went well with the new pot and I did it completely inside. Only downside is that my 6gal glass carboy cracked in the cleaning process, which I guess is better than it cracking full of homebrew! Anyway, picked up a 6 gal better bottle until I can get a better cleaning/brewing station in my basement.

I did something odd this time, though. I had recently made a batch of cider from which I had 1 lb of light brown sugar left over. When i entered everything into the brew calc I came out with just around 4.55 abv and wanted it a bit higher so I dropped the sugar in with about 15 mins left in the boil... It naturally is looking a bit darker than the similar recipe I made last brew. Will this have much effect on taste? I was sort of hoping it would contribute mostly to ABV. It's basically a very hoppy pale ale with 3.3lbs of LME and 3 of DME along with a pound of steeping grains...

Anyways, we'll see what happens.

Thanks for all the responses!

Cheers,

Murphness

 

[unionrdr]

That pound of brown sugar will add to the color a little,but not much. A little flavor complexity as well. But again,not all that much. It'll def have a tad more abv as well.