late addition wort to the boil

[swanwick]

In an automated 3 vessel system where the wort is getting pumped from the MT to the BK, there is going to be a small amount of wort left in the hose between the pump and the BK inlet (in my case the whirlpool inlet).

When one starts whirlpooling, this wort will then get added to the BK because it is being pushed by BK wort from behind it. Any issue to the beer? Should we be circulating a few times during the boil to compensate for this or is it completely negligible?

 

[VikeMan]

How much hose wort are we talking about? And what's the temperature of the main wort when the hose wort is mixed in?

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I run a 3v2p single tier herms and I ensure my pump heads and all kettle valves and tubing see long enough exposure to high temperatures to achieve Pasteurization before I start chilling the wort. I expect that's actually pretty common to most recirculating brew rigs...

Cheers!

 

[swanwick]

How much hose wort are we talking about? And what's the temperature of the main wort when the hose wort is mixed in?

By my Pi*r^2 x length calculation for 1/2" hose and 36" of hose = 1/2 cup of wort. The wort would have been cooling in the hose since the mash transfer so lets call it room temp after an hour. The whirlpool would start at flame out so call it 100degrees.

It is obviously a small amount of wort addition so the temperature change is negligible. My question is more about whether there is any possible contamination from wort that doesn't get boiled the appropriate amount of time.

 

[swanwick]

fwiw, I run a 3v2p single tier herms and I ensure my pump heads and all kettle valves and tubing see long enough exposure to high temperatures to achieve Pasteurization before I start chilling the wort. I expect that's actually pretty common to most recirculating brew rigs...

Cheers!

Thanks. I am setting up 3v2p single tier herms also. So what does that mean process-wise? Are you doing a short re-circ a few times during the boil? I am assuming turning on the pump 3 times for 5 seconds each would be enough. 15mins, 30 mins 45mins, and then at flame-out for whirlpool?

 

[day_trippr]

Well, ok, to start, I heat up my strike water in the bk, and the sparge liquor in the hlt, recirculating each through their respective pumps and related tubing and valves. Then, once I've underlet the grain with the strike volume in the mlt - and let it rest for ~5 minutes - I start recirculating the mash, so that's another pair of ball valves sanitized in short order.

Eventually I reconfigure the rig for a fly sparge, with the wort ending up in the bk, and when the sparge is complete I recirculate the bk until just before the boil is reached. At the back end when I've killed the boil and chilled the wort down to just under 170°F with my 1/2" x 50' SS IC, I do the whirlpool hop thing, then chill down to pitching temperature.

I've never had an evident infection most likely because everything on the rig gets toasty at some point

Cheers!

 

[SanPancho]

In an automated 3 vessel system where the wort is getting pumped from the MT to the BK, there is going to be a small amount of wort left in the hose between the pump and the BK inlet (in my case the whirlpool inlet).

When one starts whirlpooling, this wort will then get added to the BK because it is being pushed by BK wort from behind it. Any issue to the beer? Should we be circulating a few times during the boil to compensate for this or is it completely negligible?

assuming typical practices, your wort was held at 150+ for like 30-60 minutes? Maybe even 165+ for a mashout? It’s not sterile, but that’s sanitary given temp and time.

yes, Fahrenheit. Because America.

 

[VikeMan]

It is obviously a small amount of wort addition so the temperature change is negligible. My question is more about whether there is any possible contamination from wort that doesn't get boiled the appropriate amount of time.

That's why I asked about the temperature, i.e. sanitation. I'd say you have a bigger risk of contamination than if the unboiled wort hadn't been added, but still pretty small.

Edit: I just realized your 100 degrees is Celcius. In that case, I wouldn't really be worried at all.

 

[swanwick]

Thanks guys. Sorry about the celsius. I normally think in F as well, but 100 as the boiling point just makes so much more sense.

Understood on the mash and sparge temps taking care of anything inappropriate that could grow in a fermenter. I have been using a 3 tier gravity system for years and now jumping to electric, same-level, and automation all at the same time (using Brucontrol Uniflex). So, I should be able to just script the boil to re-circ for a super short moment during the boil just for extra piece of mind.

Speaking of boil re-circ....does anyone re-circ while bringing BK up to temp? Would that help avoid initial boil over? Or would it make it worse because entire vessel getting to boil at the same time rather than just the part closest to element first?

Swan

 

[day_trippr]

As I stated, after the fly sparge is complete I do recirculate the boil kettle alone until a few degrees before the boil is reached, mostly to ensure sanitation. It's not that much of a heat gain as the wort coming out of the mlt is up around 170°F due to mash out and sparge liquor temperature...

Cheers!