Lambic Style / Kriek

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Sixbillionethans

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Location
Wauwatosa, WI
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
US-05
Yeast Starter
No
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter
WY3278
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.060
Final Gravity
TBD
Boiling Time (Minutes)
300
IBU
~10?
Color
6
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
1 week @ 68F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
See notes.
Additional Fermentation
See notes.
Tasting Notes
Not done yet.
This is my first lambic-style beer and first attempt at something close to a turbid mash. It was a little dicey for a while, but I'm excited about the prospects. I'll keep this post up to date at I monitor the long fermentation. May even post some pics of the funk.


MASHED GRAINS
6.5# US 6-Row
4# Flaked Wheat
1# Belgian Pils


HOPS
1oz EKG @ ~180 minutes
*I had opened the package of pellets about 4 weeks previous, crushed them all up, and left them open on my fridge to try to stale them. They lost most of their aroma, but weren't true aged hops.


MASHING NOTES
Planned mash schedule: based on Mosher's step mash along with the suggestion I found from Frank Boon which called for the 86F step and a step mash.
1. Dough-in @ 86F with 1 qt/lb, stir, and remove all milky liquid. Heat that liquid to boiling and hold.
2. 113 rest for 15 mins.
3. 131 rest for 15 mins.
4. Use boiled turbid mash to increase to 149 for 15 mins.
5. 160 rest for 15 mins.
6. Boil a decoction and increase to ~180, hold, and drain.
7. Batch sparge with boiling water.

Actual mash schedule and notes: this was a pretty adventurous mash, so I had some difficulties, but went ok. Really a long brew day though.
1. Dough in with 3.1 gals of 92F water to hit 86. Actually about 90F, but close. Pulled ~1.4-1.5 gals of milky liquid and put in saucepan.
2. Immediately add ~1.4-1.5 gal of boiling water, but actually hit 130-140F. Add 0.5 gal cold water to hit 120-122F. Rested for 25 minutes.
3. Heat turbid mash to boiling over course of 25 minutes. Delayed due to heating other stuff. An extra burner would have helped for such a mash.
4. Added ~1 gal boiling water to hit 130-132F. Since I opened the mash tun and stirred a few times, the temp dropped over course of 15 minute rest to 122F.
5. Added boiling turbid wort to hit 140 (149 was target). Pull 1 gallon of wort (no grain) and heat to boil, add back to mash along with some hot water to hit 148-150F.
6. Added remaining boiling water to hit 155 (target was 160F). Pulled 1 gallon of wort and boiled, add back to hit 160F.
7. Pulled a 3 gal decoction, boiled, and added back to mash to hit 170F. Let sit ~5 mins and drained MLT. Gathered 6 gal.
8. Added 4.7 gal boiling water to grains to hit 185-190F. Ran off 4.5 gal.
9. Somehow, I collected more than I planned. Perhaps added some additional water, but ended up with 10.5 gal. Couldn't boil it all from the start, so added it through boil.
*Boil was all full of gunk. Lots of stringy things and goo, huge pile of trub. Actual boil time closer to 5 hours.
*Efficiency was insane due to huge sparge volume…I ended up 10 full points higher than planned.


FERMENTATION NOTES
Primary fermentation (2/7/09): 1/2 pack of US-05 & WY3278 @ 68F. Intended to use oak in primary, but brewday was 9+ hours long and didn't feel like it anymore.
*Part of reason to add US-05 was due to fact that WY3278 was in my fridge too long. Smackpack really didn't get going much after like 6 hours.
*Slow to start fermenting, but steady after 18 hours. Kept the temp on the low side cuz I don't care if it quits at like 1.020.

Secondary fermentation (2/15/09): Rack to secondary.* Store for ~6 months @ 64-75.

3/22/09: Starting to get a hazy film over the top surface.

8/9/09: racked onto 10 lbs of thawed, frozen, pitted Seaquist Orchards tart Door County cherries. Gravity was 1.011. About 6 gallons total into a 6.5 gal carboy.
*Taste was slightly sour with quite a bit of tannins. The flavor that I attribute to oak aging (tannins, green olive, etc) was quite present in this sample.
*Either that flavor is a function of the yeast, or I got a lot of tannins from mash.
*Fermentation was really sluggish, really never took off at all. Worried.

8/15/09: fermentation still very slow to stopped. Pitched 1 pack of S-04. Fermentation sped up a lot and was going steady by next day. Hopefully a good decision.
*Was worried that long sleep along with pH of beer may have killed of viable yeast.
*Actually started to develop a little bit of Kreusen by 8/17.
*Cherries are now floating & a white-ish pink color with specs of crud on them.

8/24/09: decided to add 3/4oz medium French oak. Reasons were promoting organism growth over the flavor addition. So boiled 3 times in water and discarded water each time.
*Boiling and discarding water was done to mellow out the oak flavor contribution. I just want a place for bugs to live.

11/25/09: was moving from basement to upstairs and check gravity & taste. Still sitting @ 1.012.
*Flavor was starting to sour, but definitely not there yet. Lots of brett, but little sourness. Cherries very present in aftertaste. Promising.

2/13/10: I noticed a slight pellicle forming in cracks between the fruit on the surface.
*Different from the picture (now old), about 1/2 the fruit is still floating and 1/2 sunk to bottom. I do wonder what will happen as I rack this.
*Still thinking to age this ~18months total.
*It's been sitting at 62-66F since October. I'll let it warm up to 70-74F as spring turns to summer, which should increase sourness, then I'll taste & possibly bottle.

 
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Sixbillionethans

Sixbillionethans

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I'll tell you in a year. Ha! I'll try to update my recipe with the notes I have on other computer.

Last week I racked onto 10lbs of tart cherries. Gravity was at 1.011. Taste was starting to go sour (not enough yet). I'm going to let it age for about another year (18 months total). So far, so good though.

The thing I was surprised by was what I perceived as tannins. I didn't age with any oak additions, but I got quite a bit of tannins. I know those can be extracted from a turbid mash.

I'm no lambic expert, I can't afford to be, but the flavors were definitely in line with my limited experience with commercial offerings.

I'll taste again in 6 months or so..
 

izatt82

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it's getting close i can't wait to here how this turns out
 

Conodor

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Since my first sip of a Lambic, i have wanted to make my own. waiting impatiently to see how this turns out.
 
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Sixbillionethans

Sixbillionethans

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Looks like I can no longer edit the OP as I had been...boo.

I've been brewing a lot, but that's all the time I've had so finding time to write about brewing has been less possible. As I'm currently on vacation, I finally have an unobstructed minute to update.

I kegged this beer on 18 June 2010, which made it 16 months old. Gravity was 1.008. It's currently almost 20 months old now.

Despite pounds of cherry carcasses in the carboy kegging went smoothly and without issue.

- Color is brilliantly clear and light red from the cherries. Sharp spritzy carbonation raises a pinkish head which diminishes almost immediately.
- Aroma has lots of fruit with significant brett and some earthiness. Definitely a beer that I can just sit and smell for a while before drinking.
- Flavor is tart and acidic, but not hugely sour. After taste is lingering cherries. Finish is very dry and seems to linger on tongue. More sweetness is evident as it warms up and I find an almost room temperature serving temp to be quite good.

I think it's a quality kriek. Since commercial bottles are so pricey my experience level with the style is lacking and I can't easily compare. I've had various sour beers from other US brewers and I would gladly compare this with any of them. I'm going to bottle several bombers to retain for several years of aging and bring out for special occasions.

I share the opinion of others on this and other forums that the Wyeast blend makes a fine beer, but seems to lack some complexity. This is a beer I'm proud of. Probably the best beer I've made to date. But I do think it has a little less depth than I desired. Various posts have commented on using commercial dregs. If I were to make another kriek, I'd seek out a fine commercial brand with viable dregs and add those as well.
 

winterparkmg

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What do you think about pitching the US-05 and a tube of WLP-500 to get the belgian out of it on top of the lambic style? Citrusy with the sweetness of cherries? I have a very low grav wort that ended up sour from lautering 2 day old grains from a Belgian Trippel and I'd like to experiment with it. I'd definitely like to check out your recipe and fermentation schedule as a guideline for me. Thoughts?
~Wm
 
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Sixbillionethans

Sixbillionethans

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What do you think about pitching the US-05 and a tube of WLP-500 to get the belgian out of it on top of the lambic style? Citrusy with the sweetness of cherries? I have a very low grav wort that ended up sour from lautering 2 day old grains from a Belgian Trippel and I'd like to experiment with it. I'd definitely like to check out your recipe and fermentation schedule as a guideline for me. Thoughts?
~Wm
Sorry, I'm not really following what you're saying. You want to (or maybe already did) pitch a blend of US-05 and WLP 500 and then pitch a Lambic culture? I suppose there is no reason it wouldn't work.

Or, you did the US-05/WLP-500 and then it got sour and you're wondering if it will taste good? I don't know, I guess you should taste it.

Please understand that the recipe listed here was a laborious attempt to re-create the Lambic style: from a turbid mash, to a 5 hour boil, to a 16 month aging. I would not recommend taking the results and applying them to an "accidental" sour beer.
 

Rippt530

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Congrats on a successful brew. I'm jealous of even having an extra carboy to leave occupied for that long. I need some new ones, I'm thinking 6-8 6.5 gals will get me to a good place.
 

GiraffeBrew

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It will gwet you to a good place. And that place has lots of homebrew!! Cheers!!!!
 

Huck-E-bear

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BWAHAHAHAHAH i didn notice the little cute 1 of 3 pages on the bototm corner... i am retarded
 

GiraffeBrew

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So I have wanted to do a Lambic from the moment I realized that I could make beer at home. I held off though because I knew that it was rather involved and wanted to get my sea legs under me before I embarked. Well, fast forward through 300+ gallons of homebrew and I finally felt comf enough with my technique, my system, and my knowledge of the style.(If any of you are interested in brewing Lambics of any sort, I would like to STRONGLY recommend 'Wild Brews' by Jeff Sparrow. It is invaluable reading!!) :rockin:
So back in July I started the journey........................

6gal batch SG 1.056
60% Belgian Pils
40% Unmalted Wheat
4.5oz Czech Saaz Whole Flowers(4yrs old)

So I decided to go the traditional route and go full bore with a Turbid Mash.(Holy long brew day Batman.) It'll be worth it though.

Primary fermentation with Wyeast 3763 Roeselare for 14 days.
Secondary to carboy with WLP655 Belgian Sour Mix 1.
Has been kept in the mid to low 60's the entire time now.
I hit it with 10# raspberries from our farm on October 1st. Gravity was at 1.009.
Checked the gravity and tasted 1 week later. Sorta acidicly sweet with some funk coming on. 1.014.
Just checked the gravity this morning.(Jan. 6, 2012) 1.005 Tastes are starting to come around. I want a little more funk. Time will help this!! I'll keep you posted as I brew more of these and as this one comes around. Cheers!!!!!!
 

mikelikesit2000

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So I have wanted to do a Lambic from the moment I realized that I could make beer at home. I held off though because I knew that it was rather involved and wanted to get my sea legs under me before I embarked. Well, fast forward through 300+ gallons of homebrew and I finally felt comf enough with my technique, my system, and my knowledge of the style.(If any of you are interested in brewing Lambics of any sort, I would like to STRONGLY recommend 'Wild Brews' by Jeff Sparrow. It is invaluable reading!!) :rockin:
So back in July I started the journey........................

6gal batch SG 1.056
60% Belgian Pils
40% Unmalted Wheat
4.5oz Czech Saaz Whole Flowers(4yrs old)

So I decided to go the traditional route and go full bore with a Turbid Mash.(Holy long brew day Batman.) It'll be worth it though.

Primary fermentation with Wyeast 3763 Roeselare for 14 days.
Secondary to carboy with WLP655 Belgian Sour Mix 1.
Has been kept in the mid to low 60's the entire time now.
I hit it with 10# raspberries from our farm on October 1st. Gravity was at 1.009.
Checked the gravity and tasted 1 week later. Sorta acidicly sweet with some funk coming on. 1.014.
Just checked the gravity this morning.(Jan. 6, 2012) 1.005 Tastes are starting to come around. I want a little more funk. Time will help this!! I'll keep you posted as I brew more of these and as this one comes around. Cheers!!!!!!
Looking forward to hearing your updates. Are you gonna start your own thread on this? or will you post updates here?
 

bribo179

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My guess...6 row has more enzymes that 2 row. That would be more enzymes to convert the unmalted adjuncts.
 

Jakey2005

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Is it necessary to pitch new yeast when transferring the beer into the secondary and onto the cherries? I just did this myself and transferred onto cherries but am now concerned after reading this thread that I need to pitch some new yeast in as well to get it going enough to "eat" up the sugar in the cherries. And if it is necessary should I use a neutral yeast at this point or the original Wyeast 3278 I used or something else?
 

chrislehr

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Great thread. Subscribed. If any of you make your own threads, please link them here too!
 

Harvestsmiles

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@ Jakey. I am wondering the same. I've read that leaving it in the same vessel may be better than racking to a secondary so I planned to just add the fruit and dregs into the original carboy after about 6 months. But curious should I also add extra yeast as well...Any insight folks?
 

Harvestsmiles

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Also interested about bottling suggestions. What kind of amounts of priming sugar is good for this style. And will more yeast be needed then?
:confused:
 

Jakey2005

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@ Jakey. I am wondering the same. I've read that leaving it in the same vessel may be better than racking to a secondary so I planned to just add the fruit and dregs into the original carboy after about 6 months. But curious should I also add extra yeast as well...Any insight folks?
Since i didn't hear anything from anyone i went ahead and racked from primary into secondary on top of the cherries. I did add more yeast and it took right off. That being said I can't say whether the new yeast was necessary or not but I figured it couldn't hurt.
 

greyday

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rusty416 said:
Definitely going to try this with some small changes.
Me too! Once I get all my meads I to secondary, this is going to be my winter project, no question. Even if it doesn't turn out, this seems like FUN!
 
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