Lagering and keezing

[ThomasPaine]

I really only have room for a deep freeze and a keezer/ fermenter at my in laws house. I'm thinking about lagering and keezing in the same keezer/ fermenter.I feel that keg temp varying some below serving temp then above serving temp due to adjusting lagering temps, won't matter much as long as my pallet doesn't mind. I'm wondering if anyone has a better idea that doesn't involve a new keezer. I like the Real Ale Hans Pils and plan to attempt a clone.

 

[ba-brewer]

how big of a freezer are you planning to use and how many taps?

You can build a compartment inside the keezer for fermenting and use a fermwrap to boost the temp in just that area.

 

[ThomasPaine]

Sorry, this was some what of a drunk post. What I'm interested in is lagering a beer in the same freezer that has my keg while still enjoying the beer in the keg. I suppose I'll just need to look at the lagering temps and decided if I want to put my kegged beer through those kind of temp changes.

 

[Yooper]

Sorry, this was some what of a drunk post. What I'm interested in is lagering a beer in the same freezer that has my keg while still enjoying the beer in the keg. I suppose I'll just need to look at the lagering temps and decided if I want to put my kegged beer through those kind of temp changes.

I lager at 34 degrees, but there isn't any reason you can't lager at 40 or whatever your serving temperature is.

Fermenting is a different story, of course, as that is usually 50-52 degrees and then if doing a diacetyl rest that is typically done in the low/mid 60s.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I only have one keezer which fits 11 cornies. I have a complicated setup where I pump around coolant from the keezer for my fermenatation, but I just lager my kegs at my serving temp (42F), I just lagered 5 kegs for 5 months for an Oktoberfest party, and no 42 is not the 'true' lagering temp, but those beers were just outstanding. Any time in a stable, cold environment will help lagers mature and clear, IMO.

 

[ThomasPaine]

Ok, thanks. I guess I will need to drink my IPA a little faster in order to get another brew going. I'll also start looking for a mini fridge for my keg I suppose. Thanks

 

[ba-brewer]

I only have one keezer which fits 11 cornies. I have a complicated setup where I pump around coolant from the keezer for my fermenatation, but I just lager my kegs at my serving temp (42F), I just lagered 5 kegs for 5 months for an Oktoberfest party, and no 42 is not the 'true' lagering temp, but those beers were just outstanding. Any time in a stable, cold environment will help lagers mature and clear, IMO.

That is a nice setup you have, I was thinking about doing something similar, but decided to build my ferment chamber next to the keezer instead.

I wonder if 42 may be closer to the 'true' temp that the first lagers were produced. Also at 42 some of the less flocculant yeasts may still be active and able to continue cleaning up the beer.

 

[McKnuckle]

I am fermenting a lager right now in my keezer. Normally I set the keezer to 39F. I've raised it to 46F for this experiment. So far the fermenting beer is holding at 52F at its peak, up from 48F near the start. The beer from the tapped kegs is fine at 46F in my book. I like the softer carbonation and slightly more delicate taste (like English beers).

I follow the Brulosopher accelerated lager method, so after about a week I will remove the fermenter from the keezer and ramp up to mid 60s to finish it. Then it can be crashed and kegged in the keezer at normal serving temps.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

That is a nice setup you have, I was thinking about doing something similar, but decided to build my ferment chamber next to the keezer instead.

I wonder if 42 may be closer to the 'true' temp that the first lagers were produced. Also at 42 some of the less flocculant yeasts may still be active and able to continue cleaning up the beer.

Thanks, I love my compact setup and I love having two chambers. I do 12 gallon batches so I often split my batches into 2 carboys, I will do an ale on one and lager on the other or more often than not standard and belgian ale split batches from the same boil.

You may be onto something about the 42F temp with some yeast activity still going there, that hadn't occurred to me yet. I was really amazed how much the lagered beers changed over 5-6 months. I made 2 kegs of each when I made them, drank one with just 4 weeks lagering and kept the other keg for my party. The czech pils, I thought it was really great fresh, but lagered 5 months it tasted just like I was sitting at a cafe in Bohemia again, just a spot-on beer for the style.

 

[MaddBaggins]

Nice to see this thread pop up. I've been brewing a long time and I've never made a lager. I recently scored a small fridge that I don't need for anything else. Time to start making some lagers. I'm keeping it on my back patio and checking it's temp range so I get a feel for it. Right now I have a gallon of water in it with a thermometer and set to the warmest setting. I'll wait a couple days and see where that's at then check the coldest setting.

From doing some reading, it looks like the general idea is to ferment is low-mid 50's then a diacetyl rest then down into the mid-hi 30's. Sound about right?

 

[ba-brewer]

@HausBrauerei_Harvey
I can't help myself I have to sample beers as soon they have carbonation, fun to see how they change with time.

How easy is it getting kegs in and out and any issues with general keezer duties with fermenting beer in the chamber?

@MaddBaggins that is the general idea, there are other accelerated approaches to the lager fermentation like McKnuckle mentioned. I use an accelerated method similar to what I heard Mike McDole on the brewing network uses. I start at 50 then bump to 53 at 50% to terminal gravity, then bump to 56 at 75% to terminal gravity, then to 61F at about 90% for a diacetyl rest. Mike McDole starts at 55F and ends at 68F, but I think the main idea is to drive the yeast to stay more active by increasing the temp as the fermentation progresses. Usually takes about 2days of active fermentation after krausen forms to get to 50% another day for 75% and one or two more to get to 90%.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

@HausBrauerei_Harvey
I can't help myself I have to sample beers as soon they have carbonation, fun to see how they change with time.

How easy is it getting kegs in and out and any issues with general keezer duties with fermenting beer in the chamber?

@ba-brewer My setup is obviously not as easy as others to shuffle kegs in an out of, but I dont have any 'issues' with how I did my setup, I love it! The wheels really added to the height so I do have a little platform-like ladder thing which is about a foot off the ground I stand on when putting a full keg in there.

My main issue I have is I haven't built a gas dispensing control center and run my had lines nicely yet, so it's often a jumble of holding the gas lines out of the hole I have to set the keg into. Being that what I have now (CO2 in keezer) works, the drive to do that project is a lot lower. Also I obviously have to remove fermenting carboys from the top when I want to move in kegs, but this doesn't happen to often and I usually just get them on gas from my second tank and wait until the ferm chambers empty up.

 

[McKnuckle]

I ferment on the right-hand shelf inside my keezer, so the height is a bit more manageable. The CO2 tank is kept outside the appliance, so the shelf is clear. And there's room for a blow-off jug next to the fermenter if necessary. The gas and beer lines (and kegs) are all to the left of the shelf, so there's minimal interference to deal with.

 

[lhommedieu]

I've fermented in my kegerator at 50F and then lagered in the low 30's just by adjusting the temperature control. The beer in the keg alongside didn't seem to mind.

 

[ThomasPaine]

I've fermented in my kegerator at 50F and then lagered in the low 30's just by adjusting the temperature control. The beer in the keg alongside didn't seem to mind.

I'm thinking about this. What's the worst that can happen? I'll keep some frosty mugs handy for the higher temp phase so I can still drink from the keg.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Sorry, this was some what of a drunk post. What I'm interested in is lagering a beer in the same freezer that has my keg while still enjoying the beer in the keg. I suppose I'll just need to look at the lagering temps and decided if I want to put my kegged beer through those kind of temp changes.

This is what I do. Lagering is long term storage at sub 40F or "as cold as you can get it" in some people's minds. You can serve and lager in the same area if the temps are the same. The difficult part is keeping the beer lagering and not sampling it or showing off how clear it is. Unless your in laws don't drink I wouldn't do it because I've had beer stored in a kegerator and it magically go tapped while I was gone and someone was thirsty and didn't care that beer was aging.

Edit: if you actually mean you want to ferment a lager in the same fridge as you serve then you'll be serving warm beer (hey no chill haze) or you'll have some stuck fermentations.

 

[ThomasPaine]

Thanks, I have decided that by the time I brew this Sunday, if my keg isn't empty, than it sure will be by the end of brew day. I also decided that I want a fresh keg for thx giving, so I won't be lagering this time. And geez I will want another keg for x mas.