Lager kit problem

[kjfarwell]

I accidentally bought a lager Maibock kit from Norther Brewer when I was a super newb. I did not know about the Lager fermenting issues. I don't have any temperature control availability.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/maibock-extract-kit.html

I got the Wyeast 2124 Bohemian yeast.

Someone told me that a lager yeast could give me a sour beer if I fermented at my 70-72 basement temperature.

So I don't want to wast it...so can I....

1. Just brew it and ferment it at that 70-72 temperature?

2. Buy an ale yeast to substitute and if so, what yeast should I use?

3. I'm in Kansas and we are hitting winter. I could ferment it in my unheated garage...which I'm sure has temperature fluctuation but would be colder...I'm not sure of ranges though.

I know I can get a container and try to do a swamp cooler type thing or buy one of those cooler jackets...it calls for a 3 month fermentation which is way longer than I've ever done...

suggestions? Thank you!

 

[Begin2Brew]

The safe way would be to use an ale yeast, ferment it and then lager it. Then you would have an Alt beer.

If you are a gambler you could use the lager yeast and wrap the fermenter in blankets to keep the temps stable and hope the are around 50F.

 

[sjskeels]

Watch this brewing tv episode, will give you some ideas. http://brewingtv.com/episodes/?currentPage=5

 

[kjfarwell]

Ok...thanks. I have no idea on what an "alt" beer is or how to do what you mentioned but I"m sure it is on the forums....this place is loaded with info! Thanks for your help, I appreciate it!

The safe way would be to use an ale yeast, ferment it and then lager it. Then you would have an Alt beer.

If you are a gambler you could use the lager yeast and wrap the fermenter in blankets to keep the temps stable and hope the are around 50F.

 

[kjfarwell]

Thanks...I will as soon as I get the kids to bed

Watch this brewing tv episode, will give you some ideas. http://brewingtv.com/episodes/?currentPage=5

 

[BostonianBrewer]

Just brew the beer with an ale yeast , German ale by Wyeast to be exact . It will work great

 

[Yooper]

If you can't maintain 50 degree temperatures for at least 10-14 days, I'd give up on the lager yeast.

What is the lowest temperature you can reasonably hold? If it's 60 degrees, you've got some choices like California lager yeast or nottingham ale yeast (the dry one). If it's 65-68 degrees, then S05 would be the go-to yeast strain for dry and Wyeast 1056 for liquid.

Another really good choice would be Wyeast 1450 (Denny's Favorite), if you can maintain fermentation temperatures of 60-65 or thereabouts. That would probably be my preference for this beer, if that temperature is possible.

70-72 ambient room temperature is too high for any ale yeast, never mind lager yeast! If you can do a water bath with ice bottles or something, you could do an ale.

 

[jph2275]

Someone told me that a lager yeast could give me a sour beer if I fermented at my 70-72 basement

I can attest to this. In August I received an Oktoberfest kit as a gift from AHS. It had liquid white labs lager yeast and I didn't at the time have the equipment to lager. Soo ....

I went to the LHBS and was given a recommendation to use a packet of dry yeast from a brewers best kit that said Lager on it. I was told if I just let it ferment longer (5-6 week primary) it would be ok. Looking back I feel dumb for taking this advice but live and learn ...

Fast forward to two weeks ago, I kegged this beer and its definitely not the tasty Oktoberfest I was expecting. It is a sour-fest. Drinkable sure. Do I enjoy it? No. Will time heal it? Unsure. It seems to have improved slightly over these past two weeks in my keg ... But is taking up prime real estate a Da yoopers house pale ale is waiting for. Deciding wether or not to dump it.

Decisions decisions ...

 

[kjfarwell]

why is this to high? Most of what I've read thus far says 68-72 for ales...what kind of off flavor will it give it if is to high? Sometimes I've thought my beer has an off flavor but I can't discern what it matches to on those off flavor descriptions.

If mid 60s is more favorable I can do water baths I guess...I'm also just using those peel and stick thermometers that go on the carboys as my temperature gauge...

If you can't maintain 50 degree temperatures for at least 10-14 days, I'd give up on the lager yeast.

What is the lowest temperature you can reasonably hold? If it's 60 degrees, you've got some choices like California lager yeast or nottingham ale yeast (the dry one). If it's 65-68 degrees, then S05 would be the go-to yeast strain for dry and Wyeast 1056 for liquid.

Another really good choice would be Wyeast 1450 (Denny's Favorite), if you can maintain fermentation temperatures of 60-65 or thereabouts. That would probably be my preference for this beer, if that temperature is possible.

70-72 ambient room temperature is too high for any ale yeast, never mind lager yeast! If you can do a water bath with ice bottles or something, you could do an ale.

 

[Yooper]

why is this to high? Most of what I've read thus far says 68-72 for ales...what kind of off flavor will it give it if is to high? Sometimes I've thought my beer has an off flavor but I can't discern what it matches to on those off flavor descriptions.

If mid 60s is more favorable I can do water baths I guess...I'm also just using those peel and stick thermometers that go on the carboys as my temperature gauge...

Yes, 68 is perfect for ales! BUT- that's fermenting beer temperature, and not ambient temperature.

I've seen beer be more than 10 degrees higher than ambient temperatures during an active fermentation- which means your 72 degree room could mean fermenting at 80+ degrees.

A beer fermented too warm tends to have more esters like banana or bubblegum flavors, and just tastes "off". Some yeast strains are worse for that than others- Wyeast 1272 gets very very fruity, but dry nottingham gets really foul above about 72 degrees. S04 gets fruity, but badly so, a bit like rotten fruit.

If it's fermented really really warm, the beer will have a "hot" taste and aroma (called fusels) and get a bit solventy.

I tend to ferment at 62 or so for most ales, and that really makes "clean" and smooth tasting beers, but sometimes I go lower (60 is great for Denny's Favorite, Wyeast 1450, or pacman) or higher (66-68 for S05).

When we talk about fermentation temperature, it's always the actual fermentation temperature of the beer, not the room. A "stick on" thermometer is very helpful for seeing the temperature at a glance.

If your room is routinely 72 degrees, a water bath can make a good beer great, by holding the fermentation at 66 degrees fairly easily.

 

[BansheeRider]

I accidentally bought a lager Maibock kit from Norther Brewer when I was a super newb. I did not know about the Lager fermenting issues. I don't have any temperature control availability.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/maibock-extract-kit.html

I got the Wyeast 2124 Bohemian yeast.

Someone told me that a lager yeast could give me a sour beer if I fermented at my 70-72 basement temperature.

So I don't want to wast it...so can I....

1. Just brew it and ferment it at that 70-72 temperature?

2. Buy an ale yeast to substitute and if so, what yeast should I use?

3. I'm in Kansas and we are hitting winter. I could ferment it in my unheated garage...which I'm sure has temperature fluctuation but would be colder...I'm not sure of ranges though.

I know I can get a container and try to do a swamp cooler type thing or buy one of those cooler jackets...it calls for a 3 month fermentation which is way longer than I've ever done...

suggestions? Thank you!

You can use San Francisco WLP810 lager yeast. http://www.whitelabs.com/yeast/wlp810-san-francisco-lager-yeast
That yeast is fermented at ale temps and maintains lager characteristics. I am willing to bet Northern Brewer would ship you new yeast free of charge. Just tell them you made a mistake, they have great customer service.

 

[roastquake]

a water bath can make a good beer great, by holding the fermentation at 66 degrees fairly easily.

This works great for me all summer long. You see my location so you know it's really hot. A while back, I froze a bunch of water bottles that would have otherwise been trash. During fermentation I just switch them out from the freezer to the water once or twice a day as needed

 

[kjfarwell]

Thanks for the help...I'll get a thermometer just to check the room temp and then get a swamp cooler setup. I just brewed 2 batches this past weekend and did happen to put some wet towels on them...hopefully that helps a little anyways. I also read somewhere were someone took a door off a mini fridge then built a small "box" where 2 carboys would fit for temperature control. I might look into that if I can find a mini fridge on the cheap.

Thanks!

 

[shadows69]

I accidentally bought a lager Maibock kit from Norther Brewer when I was a super newb. I did not know about the Lager fermenting issues. I don't have any temperature control availability.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/maibock-extract-kit.html

I got the Wyeast 2124 Bohemian yeast.

Someone told me that a lager yeast could give me a sour beer if I fermented at my 70-72 basement temperature.

So I don't want to wast it...so can I....

1. Just brew it and ferment it at that 70-72 temperature?

2. Buy an ale yeast to substitute and if so, what yeast should I use?

3. I'm in Kansas and we are hitting winter. I could ferment it in my unheated garage...which I'm sure has temperature fluctuation but would be colder...I'm not sure of ranges though.

I know I can get a container and try to do a swamp cooler type thing or buy one of those cooler jackets...it calls for a 3 month fermentation which is way longer than I've ever done...

suggestions? Thank you!

#3 unheated garage.. cement floor? If your hitting winter there is your best shot at lagering without buying anything extra. If it is 50 or lower in your garage then I say primary it for about 7 days, 3days after that room temp, move to secondary (off the yeast) for 6 to 8 weeks.
Thats what I would do only because its going to get colder in the garage and a cement floor would make it even better as we go though December. I do mine in the basement abd now till the end of march is prime time and never had a problem lagering this time of year. Im in pa though.

 

[roastquake]

^ If you do this, which I think is the best idea if you confirm the correct temp, then your Maibock should be ready by the time it's traditionally drunk: May.

 

[kjfarwell]

I'll either get that San Francisco WLP810 suggested by BansheeRider or hold off and build a little temperature control area....been doing a lot of reading and looking...I think I can enclose (see picture) a small area in the corner of a storage space using a bigger mini fridge (removing the door)....I think I can cut out my shelving...rebuild/structure a bit and keep the fridge in the corner. It would be nice to be able to fit 3 carboys in it. I've seen some designs with that pink insulating board...so I might try that...I'm finding the fridges on CL for 30 bucks....I have a bunch of spare wood....so I think it would be at a minimal cost material wise...buy a temperature control...spend some time building and have a pretty nice gig. I didn't realize that even ale yeast had different "sweet spots" for temperatures. On the bright side, I checked my temperature carboy strip and it said 66....I've had a wet towel wrapped around. So better than the 70...which I'm still a bit confused if that is fermentation temp or ambient temp but I'll look into that tomorrow.

Do I only need to worry about the temperature during that primary fermentation time?

 

[kjfarwell]

there is a nice nook behind the beer/pop and moveable counter type thing...that is where I'm thinking....and cutting out that portion of shelving for the carboys

 

[DocnSun]

Getting rid of heat is more of an issue than gaining it!
You can put a blankie on it and stick a light bulb in it, on a timer to gain heat. Stick a thermometer in it and check what the interval should be that will retain the temp you need. That enclosed space is not that hard to heat with a light bulb! Just make sure it's all fire safe with clearance.