Kuitbier / Koyt beer - Does It Need Lagering?

[Protos]

Gentlemen, I made an extensive (as far as the interwebs allowed me) research on Kuitbier / Koyt beer, which I've never tasted in person and which I'm planning to brew soon.
I hope I got the general idea of the style: Koyt was an example (or rather predecessor) of wide variety of Northern Germanic top-fermented, neutral-flavoured, non-barley-grain-based beers, therefore it's often recommended to recreate it with German Ale yeasts.
Following the guidelines I found, I created a recipe: OG 1.060, 1/2 Oat (40% Belgian Oat Malt+10% Golden Naked Oats), 1/3 German Pilsner, 1/6 German Wheat Malt, 30IBU EKG, Danstar Koelsch dry yeast).

The only thing I'm a bit confused about is the question of lagering.
As long as German "Ales" are typically lagered it seems quite natural that a Kuitbier, fermented with Koelsch-type yeast and being naturally hazy because of the massive dosage of oats, must be lagered too. However, no recipes, no published historical researches on the style and no brewing guidelines mention the need to lager it. Which seems strange to me.
Is it just omission or is it by design?

Well, Koyt is a little-known and a very rarely brewed style. Still I hope someone may have something to tell me on this subject.

 

[day_trippr]

Point of order: "german pilsner" = barley, no?

As for your specific question: I know zilch about "Kuitbier/Koyt" (who does? but I brew a simple kolsch that benefits from extended cold conditioning (I don't use fining agents, so rely on cold and time). But that's an all-barley style (usually). Not sure if one can expect a heavily oated beer to drop bright without help. Still, if your Kuitbier / Koyt beer was typically preferred bright lagering can't hurt

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

I know zilch about "Kuitbier/Koyt"

One could do a search here on HBT (or Google) for Kuitbier or Koytbier. I've seen threads on it here. It's a Dutch beer apparently, not German.

Regarding German beers, "bier-wise," there are many different parts of Germany.
For example, Northern Germany has nothing to do with Southern or Middle Germany (or other regions in Germany).
Even the Reinheitsgebot is only applicable to the Bavarian (southern) region, esp. around Munich/Bavaria, which is only a relatively small part of Germany.

 

[day_trippr]

One can always Google up info, but presenting same as actual knowledge and/or experience is not my thing

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

One can always Google up info, but presenting same as actual knowledge and/or experience is not my thing

Fair enough!

But these terms are what I would be searching for (not using HomeBrewTalk's own search feature) when using Google:
site:homebrewtalk.com kuyt bier
site:homebrewtalk.com koyt beer

 

[Protos]

Point of order: "german pilsner" = barley, no?

Exactly. Kuitbier was traditionally made of 3 parts oat, 2 parts barley and 1 part wheat malt. Luckily, unlike with most other historical beer styles, Dutch archives and old publications provide a solid source base on its production. No mentions of lagering, though. And no indications whether it was cloudy or clear.

I've searched and read every post on Kuit / Koyt / Keut / Koit here on HBT. No mentions of lagering either.

Most of modern recreations' photos I've seen on the interwebs look murky (and, frankly, not too much appetizing). AHA and Dutch Real Ale Campaign style guidelines allow for some haziness but that says little about lagering, as lagered beers may retain slight haziness as well.

I think I will lager it anyway - just because I feel it "logical" and not because that was the way the real thing was done. Which of course is not the preferred method when recreating historical beers.

That's why I'm turning to the collective wisdom.

 

[Protos]

Well, in conversations with well-informed beer historians I've learned that Kuitbier poorly survived a long storage and therefore was consumed very fresh.
So, no lagering, as much counterintuitive the historical truth might seem.
Tomorrow will brew that.

 

[AlexKay]

I started looking into kuit, and my interwebs searching took me right to this thread.

So @Protos ... how did this turn out?

 

[rmr9]

Andreas Krennmair wrote a nice book about historic German and Austrian beer styles. I can’t remember if koyt/kuit bier was in it but it does have a lot of really interesting info that could help with some of the process related parts to brewing one.

 

[MicroMickey]

Koyt does not require lagering. It was a staple of Dutch brewing and shipped throughout the Hanseatic League trading partners.

I brewed a Koyt a few months ago. It's supposed to provide a "small but lasting collar of foam". After about three weeks in the bottle, it was carbonated but the foam didn't last. I pondered what went wrong over the next few weeks and after about 5 - 6 weeks, it did produce a nice head of foam which lasts to the bottom of the glass. I guess there's something about the oats which requires longer conditioning.

BTW - I couldn't find any information on the carbonation rate so I guessed at 2.2 volumes. That worked out about right as far as I can tell.
Another thing to keep in mind, oat malt is skinnier than either barley or wheat and will readily run right through a roller mill. My roller mill has fixed rollers so I had to dig out my old Corona corn mill to crush the oat malt.

Oat malt has plenty of husk but I did add some CellarScience Glucabuster enzyme and the mash lautered flawlessly.
You can get a lot of history on this style of beer from the site of Frederik Ruis Witte Klavervier * Dutch beer & history * White lucky clover