Kitchen circuit question

[discmonkey]

Hi all,

I'm a long time lurker who is downsizing (and upgrading?) from a 10 gallon all grain propane set-up to a 2.5-3 gallon ebiab set-up. I just bought a new house and I want to brew in the kitchen instead of the yard.

I have no electrical background but I've been reading threads and have been compiling my build list and learning. I have a couple of related questions that I wasn't able to find an answer to with a search (maybe I'm not using the right keywords) so I would appreciate it if someone can help answer or point me to an appropriate thread or threads.

My kitchen has three outlets and all are on the same circuit (it's an old house). Since the refrigerator is plugged in, if I run a 900 watt microwave and an electric water kettle, the breaker trips. The stove is gas but is also plugged in to power the clock/timer. I haven't run the dishwasher and turned on the microwave, but I should probably do that to see if it's on the same circuit as well. Yikes.

My questions are as follows:

1-Broadly, does the kitchen have 20 amp service? If the microwave is pulling 900 watts and the fridge is pulling, I don't know, 600 watts then it seems like there would be enough to power a 1.7 L water kettle on 20 amp service. Of course, I couldn't find any info about how many watts the kettle uses and maybe it's way more than I thought. And I don't know how much the fridge is actually puling so maybe I'm way off there as well. Any general thoughts on this? The breaker for the kitchen on the main electrical panel (outside of the house) lists it as 20 amp. There is a much older subpanel in the hallway where the breaker is actually tripping but none of those are are labelled (they look more like light switches). Is it possible that the old subpanel is using a 15 amp breaker?

2-If the wiring is 12 gauge and the circuit is actually 20 amp, would upgrading the breakers in the sub panel (and replacing the kitchen outlets) be the way to actually get 20 amp service in there? Or is there more to it than that?

3-I know I'll need a dedicated 20 amp circuit to run a 1500 watt element and the pump plus the PID. Very generally, is having an electrician make one of the outlets in the kitchen dedicated 20 amp service something that will cost a few hundred dollars or is it more like a few thousand dollars? I know it varies depending upon a lot of variables. The house was built in 1953 and has a crawl space under it so I don't think a bunch of plaster walls would need to be completely opened up or anything. But I don't want to waste anyone's time giving me bids if it is definitely going to be out of my price range.

Thanks in advance for any input folks may have, I appreciate it!!!

 

[dyqik]

In reply to 1)
The fridge won't be pulling more than a couple of amps, maybe 200W maximum. The problem is that an electric kettle can easily be 1500W (e.g. the Bodum Ibis 1.7L kettle, which is a common one in the shops around me, is 1500W), which combined with a microwave running at 900W will easily put you over the limits on even a 20A service at 115V.

That subpanel could still be the culprit though, as the electric kettle alone won't blow a 15A breaker.

 

[Bensiff]

Check your fuse box...but, standard is 15 amp for residential. You can figure out amperage by dividing watts by volts, so your 1500 watts between fridge and microwave on a 110v circuit draws 13.63 amps. Some breakers, especially older ones, will trip easier so it might be tripping a few amps before its rating. If you do any electrical upgrades in the kitchen you will have to bring it up to code. I don't know if you have to bring it fully to code or not though. But, code would be at least two 20 amp circuits and anything that is for countertop service has to be GFCI protected. The GFCI isn't an annoying code, it is a life saving thing, so make sure you are protected before brewing with electricity. If you do have 12 gauge wire already run instead of 14 gauge you can install a 20 amp breaker; but, be sure it is actually 12 gauge.

As far as cost of an electrician, IDK, probably around $100 per hour plus the cost of materials. If you already have 12 gauge running and all he is doing is putting in a 20amp breaker and a GFCI outlet, that shouldn't take too much time. If he has to bring everything to code, run two 20 amp lines with GFCI and there is difficulty running the wire it could get pretty expensive. Also, 12 gauge isn't cheap so if it is a long run it will add up quick.

 

[Brumateur]

Regular fridge can easily consume 1000watt or even more when compressor is running.

For 1500Watt element , PID and a hobby size pump 15A service is enough. Just be sure nothing else is plugged to the same circuit. Usually kitchen has 2-4 15A circuits.

And you can always use a stove outlet. It has 40A 120/240v service.

 

[discmonkey]

Thanks for the feedback!

I agree that GFCI is a must - that's on my list regardless of the brewing. One of the outlets is within about 18" of the sink so, yeah, ungood.

I should probably just call some electricians to look at the whole deal and see what they say. I guess the worst case scenario is I just keep brewing out back!

Thanks again!

 

[kevreh]

It may be easier and cheaper to just run a dedicated circuit and outlet. Then it could be 240v. Messing around with an existing circuit and it's wiring can be a PITA. Having crawl space is a plus. Is there a better place in your house for brewing?

A lot of electricians can be crafty with snaking and running wiring. May not be a big deal.

To run a wire for a circuit, to your main panel, with a straightforward path, could be $500 or less.

 

[discmonkey]

I did some more searching and it turns out my electric kettle does use a 1500 watt element!

It runs without tripping the breaker (as long as the microwave isn't running) so that means I should be able to run a 1500 watt brew kettle without issue, right?

A March pump shouldn't pull more than 100 watts and the PID won't use much at all so I think I should be good in terms of power. I can always run the pump from a different circuit if there's an issue until I can upgrade the electrical.

Other than getting the GFCI, are there any other obvious things I'm missing here?