Kettle Sour: What's a good base grist for fruit + how to assure that I will have head?

[fendersrule]

Here is us bugging out beer.

 

[RPh_Guy]

My FAQ is specifically for co- or post-souring processes, which do not need a high Lacto pitch rate because the bacteria have a much longer time to work (and I postulate that the agitation from fermentation helps the bacteria sour faster).

When pre-souring you should pitch a high cell count to encourage souring as fast as possible because the wort is so much more vulnerable to contamination. Normally it's recommended to pitch at least 20 billion cells per gallon when pre-souring. However pitch rate is pretty forgiving so I would just leave it alone at this point.

 

[fendersrule]

Perfect. I did pitch 20 billion per gallon.

Technically, I pitched a little more than that being it's 14.5 gallons.

 

[RPh_Guy]

You pitched 6 * 10 billion cells = 60 billion (assuming full viability).

60 ÷ 15 = 4 billion cells per gallon, which is 20% of what's suggested.

 

[fendersrule]

Oh. Yep, sorry for the bad math. My math works out to 3 gallons pitched.

 

[fendersrule]

Maybe I should draw some now and see where it's at. It's been souring for 18 hours so far...

 

[fendersrule]

Not bad.

 

[fendersrule]

I let the spiggot run for a second prior.

First sample was PH 4.72
Second sample was PH 4.62

Doesn't seem like it's souring much at this point, if we trust what it's pulling down below. Considering to peel the saran wrap back some on a corner of the pot and to carefully add an assload more capsules.

@RPh_Guy

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yeah, good idea.

 

[fendersrule]

Just added 14-15. To go with my 6 already, that's about 20-21 billion now, or roughly 1.5 capsules per gallon.

 

[RPh_Guy]

21 * 10 billion ÷ 15 gal = 14 billion / gal

 

[fendersrule]

Yea. About 1.5.

21 * 10 billion / 14.5 gal = 14.48 billion / gal to be a little more exact.

Should suffice quite nicely.

 

[fendersrule]

I’m thinking to recheck at noon tomorrow. That’s 36 hours or so.

If I get a same high reading, I may consider breaking in from the top.

so no stirring should be required for a souring PH check?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Nope

 

[fendersrule]

Well, bad news.

This morning, it was 3.5 ph.

but it gives off a banana/clove funky smell. Reminds me of a funky hefeweisen or something.

If this is a bad sign, then I need to remake this batch. Maybe I'll try the co-pitching method, and just ignore the DME addition and just let it have no head.

 

[RPh_Guy]

it gives off a banana/clove funky smell. Reminds me of a funky hefeweisen or something.

Sounds like yeast contamination. Those aromas are common with wild yeast and I've never heard of bacteria producing them, especially Swanson's L plantarum (if that's what you used).

It will likely be fine if you caught it early and proceed to boiling it. That's your call based on flavor/aroma (but it's not 100% safe to taste until after boiling).

Sorry I can't provide a definitive guide for head, but the ideas I've provided should help in theory.

 

[fendersrule]

Yeah. Problem is that it’s not sour enough yet. Not a fan of the hefe style aromas myself, so I’ll dump it.

hardly any money lost here.

in theory, my fruit additions should add head?

 

[RPh_Guy]

in theory, my fruit additions should add head?

I don't think so. Fruit doesn't have much protein.

 

[isomerization]

Yeah. Problem is that it’s not sour enough yet. Not a fan of the hefe style aromas myself, so I’ll dump it.

hardly any money lost here.

in theory, my fruit additions should add head?

Keep in mind that all the residual sugars (prior to primary fermentation) will make it taste way less sour than it will when finished. If you’re adding fruit, that will (potentially) help contribute acidity as well.

Finally, you could always pitch your yeast and co-sour like @RPh_Guy recommends.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Edit: nevermind. Misread.

 

[fendersrule]

If I go at this again I will co pitch and ignore the head.

could always boil DME on the side and dump that in on the 3-4 fermentation day mark, then add the pasteurized fruit 3-4 days after that...

 

[isomerization]

If I go at this again I will co pitch and ignore the head.

could always boil DME on the side and dump that in on the 3-4 fermentation day mark, then add the pasteurized fruit 3-4 days after that...

Try it “normal” before you go messing with it, may not cause any issues and only one way to find out.

 

[fendersrule]

yeah. I’ll stick with the fruits.
Here’s a couple sours I’m having now.