Kettle(ish) Souring

[les2point0]

Upon reading BYO's latest issue with an article in reference to kettle souring, I thought I would give it a try. Here's what I did. I mashed 95% pils and 5% wheat at 152 for 60. I oversparged an extra gallon, but the sparge was running at 7 Brix even at the end, so I didn't worry. I now have 8 gallons of wort at 1.048 preboil. The article said to do your boil and then add Lacto (Wyeast 5335) between 180 and 120 degrees and hold it there. Since I don't have an electric heating element I took the wort and poured it in my cooler, cylindrical mash tun at 150 degree and added the Lacto to the wort in the mash tun to attempt to sour it. The plan is to wait for it to get sour enough and then do my boil, chill, ferment. What I ran into was the heat did not hold. Its about 90 degrees in there, and on the second day there isnt much sour flavor. I realize this is all hard to decipher without a PH reading (I don't have a meter yet and I lent out my darn strips), but I was wondering should I just let it ride and wait a week? or should I perhaps throw it back on the burner, get it within range, and then toss it back into the cooler.

Included, I have zero experience with making sours.

 

[microbusbrewery]

I hop that's a typo because 150F and 180F is way too hot for lacto. Those are pasteurizing temps, so it kills off the microbes. 120F would be the max, but I'd shoot for 115F max.

 

[DurtyChemist]

You're doing it in an acceptable way. Some people just don't have the capabilities to heat their wort including me. Let it ride out and take a small taste every 12 hours to see where the sourness is for your personal taste. Once it's there boil, chill, ferment. From my research the reason people tend to "pre-boil" sour is to prevent any carryover of lacto into fermentors, kegs, or racking equipment. The 100F temps are just an attempt to get the lacto to sour faster than letting it sit at 68. Lactobacillus will produce lactic acid at 68F but it will take longer.

What I'm doing with my first Lacto beer is this:
10 gallon batch 1.042 OG pH 5 (strip)

Batch 1
5 gallons added to fermentor at 100F and Gigayeast GB110 pitched at 100F. Fermentation bucket wrapped with a sleeping bag (Zero degree) and I'm going to wait until 48 hours (8:30 pm Sunday) to rack it into a second bucket and pitck a 1L starter of California Ale.

Batch 2
Second 5 gallons will go directly on the lacto from batch 1 pitched with another 1L starter of California Ale. I'm going to steal some from the first starter to make the second.

I'm probably going to save some of the fast lacto before I pitch Batch 2 just because I can, I might save from Batch 2, or both and label accordingly. I know Cascade and The Bruery are primarily Lactobacillus beers and after reading American Sours one brewery said their house blend is less and less sacch each batch.

 

[les2point0]

You're doing it in an acceptable way. Some people just don't have the capabilities to heat their wort including me. Let it ride out and take a small taste every 12 hours to see where the sourness is for your personal taste. Once it's there boil, chill, ferment. From my research the reason people tend to "pre-boil" sour is to prevent any carryover of lacto into fermentors, kegs, or racking equipment. The 100F temps are just an attempt to get the lacto to sour faster than letting it sit at 68. Lactobacillus will produce lactic acid at 68F but it will take longer.

What I'm doing with my first Lacto beer is this:
10 gallon batch 1.042 OG pH 5 (strip)

Batch 1
5 gallons added to fermentor at 100F and Gigayeast GB110 pitched at 100F. Fermentation bucket wrapped with a sleeping bag (Zero degree) and I'm going to wait until 48 hours (8:30 pm Sunday) to rack it into a second bucket and pitck a 1L starter of California Ale.

Batch 2
Second 5 gallons will go directly on the lacto from batch 1 pitched with another 1L starter of California Ale. I'm going to steal some from the first starter to make the second.

I'm probably going to save some of the fast lacto before I pitch Batch 2 just because I can, I might save from Batch 2, or both and label accordingly. I know Cascade and The Bruery are primarily Lactobacillus beers and after reading American Sours one brewery said their house blend is less and less sacch each batch.

How would you go about harvesting lacto? Its so expensive.

 

[ArcLight]

How would you go about harvesting lacto? Its so expensive.

The same way you make a regular starter.
Pour the package into a 2 liter beaker , make 2 liters of starter.
Then refrigerate one liter and use the other liter.
The lacto in the refrigerated batch will go dormant.

 

[DurtyChemist]

How would you go about harvesting lacto? Its so expensive.

Since the first batch is JUST the fast sour lacto I'd swirl up some beer left over and pour it into a mason jar. Label the mason jar 'LACTO' and store it next to my yeast.

When I wanted to make another lacto beer I'd either direct pitch what I have or make a starter. I've never done it so I can't tell you which I would do but I'm thinking direct pitch.