Kegs, Kegs, Kegs

[olllllo]

Source:http://passmeabeer.com/index.php/20...n-other-industry-groups-addressing-keg-theft/

From: Paul Gatza
Sent: Thursday, July 19, 2007 8:29 AM
Subject: Keg Deposit Posts

Hi All,

We have had to reject several Brewers Association Forum posts in the last few weeks that have commented on or asked questions on altering keg deposit prices as a means of addressing the larger issue of keg loss. Deposit pricing is not a topic available for discussion, as any collective attempt to alter pricing, whether it be for beer or for keg deposits would be an anti-competitive activity aimed at fixing prices. I know that this subject is one of great frustration for many of you. There are a great many activities that are appropriate for a trade association, such as surveying and disseminating the results, and promoting a particular industry. This topic is one where we must tread very carefully, so that the trade association is in compliance with law.

That said, there are some activities related to keg deposits that we are working on. The Brewers Association technical committee has approved that the Brewers Association work with Beer Institute and ISRI (scrap dealers association) on a publicity campaign targeted at scrap dealers including trade publication advertisement and posters made available to scrap dealers stating that kegs are stolen property if they are not delivered by a company representative of the company whose name is on the keg. As long as we do not suggest specific keg deposit pricing, there is the possibility to pursue something such as development of sample state legislation. There may be a role for the PR and marketing committee on a proactive public awareness campaign. There has been some activity on stolen metal and keg deposits in several states this year.

Thanks. I'll keep you posted on further developments.

Paul Gatza, Director
Brewers Association
Boulder, Colorado
www.beertown.org

Effect: Craft brewers cannot collude to raise the deposit on kegs. It is difficult (for many other reasons other than this) to pass on this cost.

 

[olllllo]

I done holding your hands.

Read these threads: http://probrewer.com/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=609504

 

[Orfy]

In the UK many craft brewers are going over to plastic kegs to counteract theft.

ollllo, why the intense interest? Is it just a moral thing and the fact it hurts the little guys?

 

[Willie3]

Never once did I disagree with you on this issue. I agree that the theft they describe is irrevocable and should be stopped. It is a real issue and it needs to be addressed no doubt. From your article postings, there are no real numbers associated to this theft because they can't measure it. The cycle of some of the kegs can be as long as 15 years. The problem is more than just theft it stems from lack of awareness and loopholes in the legal system.

The numbers they mention also are potential sales losses/gains, which again is an estimate. They know it affects their business. Never in the article does it mention the record gains as a whole. They focus on one aspect of their business and I drew a much larger picture- often a culprit of broad stroking.

You right they may not be able to get together on raising deposits but they can collude to raise awareness and lobby for legal action.

BTW when were you holding my hands?

- WW

 

[Willie3]

In the UK many craft brewers are going over to plastic kegs to counteract theft.

ollllo, why the intense interest? Is it just a moral thing and the fact it hurts the little guys?

Do you think that if only homebrewers were the ones taking kegs to brew beer that it would be as big an issue as this?


- WW

 

[TheJadedDog]

Ummmm, maybe it's just me, but if you take something that does not belong to you that is theft right? So why would it be "okay" to steal just because it is from Bud? That's like saying "I can shoplift all I want in Wal-Mart cuz they are big and the loss won't hurt them and they are evil anyway so who cares."

I get that you guys all really love your keggles and you paid a peanuts damage deposit on the keg, but seriously, all this justification is a load of BS, you stole, deal with it, don't try to make it out like you didn't "really" steal

 

[olllllo]

Do you think that if only homebrewers were the ones taking kegs to brew beer that it would be as big an issue as this?

Not really the point. When people do something above board they generally don't have to cite statistics, etc.

ollllo, why the intense interest? Is it just a moral thing and the fact it hurts the little guys?

Orf, we really have a gem (this forum) here. It think that if we want to keep it that way then we owe it to ourselves to keep it that way.

This is sometimes the only source of information that people get on brewing and oftentimes it is the first place that they get this info.

When someone posts information that we know to be wrong, we say so. It may look like I'm overly invested in this issue, I'm really not. I think the differences is that we all really want to believe that we deserve these kegs but we really don't.

There is no way that the actual cost of the keg is $10 or $30 or anything close to the typical deposit paid (even at $100). Paying the deposit and keeping the keg is not a practice that this forum should support.

If you (fellow homebrwers) have a keg that you got via this means, I'm still happy to brew by your side. Just stop posting the mumbo-jumbo to clear your conscience.

 

[Orfy]

If you have a keg that you got via this means, I'm still happy to brew by your side. Just stop posting the mumbo-jumbo to clear your conscience.

When you say "You" I hope you mean someone else, not me.

I'm lucky I managed to buy legal kegs from Kegwatch for £8.50 delivered!

I think you'll find I've only ever posted information and not opinion when it comes to this topic.

 

[olllllo]

Editorial you. Fixed.

 

[Orfy]

I agree with you.

 

[Willie3]

Ummmm, maybe it's just me, but if you take something that does not belong to you that is theft right? So why would it be "okay" to steal just because it is from Bud? That's like saying "I can shoplift all I want in Wal-Mart cuz they are big and the loss won't hurt them and they are evil anyway so who cares."

I get that you guys all really love your keggles and you paid a peanuts damage deposit on the keg, but seriously, all this justification is a load of BS, you stole, deal with it, don't try to make it out like you didn't "really" steal

It is interesting to me that even in a written forum stories become convoluded and mixed up. Its like the "telephone game" can't even be escaped by words.

The kegs I was given during that time were not from Anheiser-Busch.

This is sometimes the only source of information that people get on brewing and oftentimes it is the first place that they get this info.

Great point.

To be honest, I was on HBT awhile back when I first got the kegs in a forum just like this one. News to me at the time. I couldn't stop thinking about how ignorant the people at the liquor store were. The place where they keep the empties is behind the store unlocked in the open. I went back, with the two kegs, and spoke with their manager, who was not aware. He even said that his inventory of kegs kept creeping lower. It has been almost a year since and let me tell you, they have revamped there empties area. They store them in a locked cage secure with a camera. I was stoked! Something I did made a difference.

This whole thread was me being Devils Advocate. Seems this topic always has much scrutinity. It is really good to know that HBT is a reliable place to get information, true and honest.

Thanks olllllo! brew on.:rockin:

BTW- I have 2 10 gallon pots and a gott for my system. Best investment I ever made - besides my family and home.

- WW

 

[Willie3]

Wow looking at the poll - to my point about awareness - according to this poll people just don't really care.

That is what needs to change.

- WW

 

[TheJadedDog]

It is interesting to me that even in a written forum stories become convoluded and mixed up. Its like the "telephone game" can't even be escaped by words.

The kegs I was given during that time were not from Anheiser-Busch.

I wasn't refering to you specifically, rather the general point of view many have expressed in this thread.

 

[CBBaron]

Wow looking at the poll - to my point about awareness - according to this poll people just don't really care.

That is what needs to change.
- WW

I think its sad that most people don't care about the morality of their kegs and who it might hurt, but I am not surprised. I am seeing more and more evidence that there are many people in society who just don't care about others or if what they are doing is right.
I don't have any 1/2 barrel kegs and probably won't get any because due to theft there is no easy way to tell what is a legal keg and what is fleeced. From the comments on the pro brewer forums linked it seems even the pros are having the same problem and they can no longer easily get used kegs.

Craig

 

[Willie3]

I wasn't refering to you specifically, rather the general point of view many have expressed in this thread.

Gotcha

- WW

 

[Willie3]

I think its sad that most people don't care about the morality of their kegs and who it might hurt, but I am not surprised. I am seeing more and more evidence that there are many people in society who just don't care about others or if what they are doing is right.
I don't have any 1/2 barrel kegs and probably won't get any because due to theft there is no easy way to tell what is a legal keg and what is fleeced. From the comments on the pro brewer forums linked it seems even the pros are having the same problem and they can no longer easily get used kegs.

Craig

"What is in it for me?" That is the attitude and I see no end in sight!

What ever happened to passion or the love of the game for all?

"Ask not what your brewery can do for you but what can you do for your brewery."

- WW