Kegland Rapt Pill floating hydrometer temperature monitor

[KegLand]

@Dru1989

I have had the rapt pill for quite a few months and have had no real issues. Though I will admit that their cloud software that can be dodgy for starting and stopping profiles. Seems like after making a profile change it's best to log out of the portal and then log back in. But certainly not unlike some of the dodgy things experienced with other devices connected to a raspberry Pi.

So while you can't, I can believe that your issues are just a one off thing. Maybe due to you getting a bad unit or a simple and as of yet unknown quirk in something with your use of it.

hey hotbeer.

We are doing quite a lot of updates on the RAPT platform and to ensure that feature requests are getting evaluated please log feature requests or bugs here:

Default · Boards · Rapt.Io / Rapt.Io · GitLab

We are doing a lot of firmware and software development at the moment. I will openly admit that the RAPT platform is still quite young (2 years old) and contains some bugs but with that said with the various new products that are getting added to the range the whole ecosystem is developing quite fast and we are committed to making this a good experience for you guys but as we add more products to the ecosystem we also need to continue to keep upgrading firmware on the devices and also software on the web platform. For instance we also have a digital spunding valve and digital regulator that are getting added soon.

With respect to starting and stopping profiles I also want to say it's important that you only start the profile once the pill is sitting still in the start of the fermentation. Failure to do so will result in a SG that is not correct and thus the ABV calculator will not work correctly. If you accidentally do this that is still ok as you can override the SG figure but it's just easier to drop the Pill in first, wait for it to stop bobbing up and down and then start the profile. This is a common issue that we have seen.

 

[KegLand]

I put a cheap wifi extender I had on hand near my ferm chamber. The signal is greatly improved in my testing. It went from a signal strength in the -55dB to -60dB range to in the -25 to -30.

View attachment 776523

This is great and this is one of the major things that will improve reliability. I should also say stronger signal strength also improves battery life as the radio can turn on for a shorter period if less packets are lost so you will notice your battery life will also be better than some other customers too.

Can you please do us all a favor and post the link to the cheap wifi extender.

 

[MikeCo]

This is great and this is one of the major things that will improve reliability. I should also say stronger signal strength also improves battery life as the radio can turn on for a shorter period if less packets are lost so you will notice your battery life will also be better than some other customers too.

Can you please do us all a favor and post the link to the cheap wifi extender.

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-AC75...cs&sprefix=wifi+extend,electronics,142&sr=1-3

 

[KegLand]

https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-AC75...cs&sprefix=wifi+extend,electronics,142&sr=1-3

Great. Thanks for that. This really is quite cheap so thanks for posting this link I am sure other customers will find this handy.

 

[kbaggen]

Hi there, I guess it a good place to post about this new project:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...datalogger-and-temperature-controller.725163/

 

[natmartin]

I borrowed a Rapt Pill from a friend so I can test it out in my brewery before buying one. However, when I try to add it to my account, it tells me that I can't add it because it's been added before. I already "cleared registration" but the error remains. Is there any way to fix this other than waiting for my friend to remove it from his account?

(I contacted keg land support, but figured maybe someone here would know.)

 

[hotbeer]

We are doing quite a lot of updates on the RAPT platform and to ensure that feature requests are getting evaluated please log feature requests or bugs here:

Default · Boards · Rapt.Io / Rapt.Io · GitLab

I went there and didn't quite see a way to make feature requests and bug reports. I have one of each to report!

I was able to see what's currently being worked on.

 

[MikeCo]

Click "List" in the left pane if in a browser on a computer. For mobile tap the icon in the upper left and tap List.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Has anyone using a Rapt Pill tried fermenting in a corny keg with a Pill and a floating dip tube both at the same time? Just curious if the pill will get hung up under the floating dip tube.

FWIW, I now have fermented several beers while using my Pill and have no real complaints other than it occasionally not updating to the portal. These misses generally coincide with bad wifi readings. I've noticed it's quite good on sunny, low humidity days, but much worse when it's overcast and raining.

Current beer fermenting...

 

[RM-MN]

Has anyone using a Rapt Pill tried fermenting in a corny keg with a Pill and a floating dip tube both at the same time? Just curious if the pill will get hung up under the floating dip tube.

FWIW, I now have fermented several beers while using my Pill and have no real complaints other than it occasionally not updating to the portal. These misses generally coincide with bad wifi readings. I've noticed it's quite good on sunny, low humidity days, but much worse when it's overcast and raining.

Current beer fermenting...

View attachment 812130

How strong of a WIFI signal do you expect from a Faraday Cage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

 

[BongoYodeler]

How strong of a WIFI signal do you expect from a Faraday Cage?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

I really wasn't sure what to expect. I do know some folks have success with their fermenter inside a keezer in the garage, while their router is in the center of their home, 20-25 feet away and through a couple walls. I guess I would have thought mine being 18 inches from my router would be decent. And it is actually, for the most part. But as I said, weather does seem to make a difference, but luckily we have an abundance of clear sunny days here.

 

[hotbeer]

I really wasn't sure what to expect. I do know some folks have success with their fermenter inside a keezer in the garage, while their router is in the center of their home, 20-25 feet away and through a couple walls. I guess I would have thought mine being 18 inches from my router would be decent.

So what is your signal strength shown by the Rapt Pill? That'll tell you more than we can.

If your signal strength is -50 to about mid -60'ish dBm, then you shouldn't have any issues whatsoever. If you do, then that's likely something else with your network and internet.

I have had signal strength as low as -82'ish dBm or there 'bouts. That was just an experiment though for a few days. It did miss some reports, but most got through.

 

[natmartin]

Has anyone using a Rapt Pill tried fermenting in a corny keg with a Pill and a floating dip tube both at the same time? Just curious if the pill will get hung up under the floating dip tube.

FWIW, I now have fermented several beers while using my Pill and have no real complaints other than it occasionally not updating to the portal. These misses generally coincide with bad wifi readings. I've noticed it's quite good on sunny, low humidity days, but much worse when it's overcast and raining.

Current beer fermenting...

View attachment 812130

I have a pill in a 2.6G torpedo corny along with a floating dip tube. So far no problems, they don't seem to be interfering with eachother. The pill is measuring accurately, and I was able to pull a sample from the dip tube

 

[BongoYodeler]

So what is your signal strength shown by the Rapt Pill? That'll tell you more than we can.

If your signal strength is -50 to about mid -60'ish dBm, then you shouldn't have any issues whatsoever. If you do, then that's likely something else with your network and internet.

I have had signal strength as low as -82'ish dBm or there 'bouts. That was just an experiment though for a few days. It did miss some reports, but most got through.

Yes, I do get that. My previous brew it was missing around 50% of the reporting. So prior to this fermentation I moved my router out of the cabinet and placed it on top, and within 18 inches of the keg with nothing in between them. I also changed to a different channel on the router. One or both of these changes definitely improved the signal as the reporting is much more consistent. Also, the weather has been sunny and dry lately, for what that's worth.

I have an older Netgear router that I'm thinking of replacing, not because of this but due to something else I'm thinking of doing. But perhaps a different router will behave differently, which would be a win-win.

Back to your question. This fermentation is clocking at between -65dB down to a horrible -87dB. Not good numbers by any means. My next beer will also be fermenting in a corny keg, but for the one after that I'll be using my plastic Speidel fermenter. It'll be interesting to see how much of a difference that makes.

***But back to my original question - does anyone have any experience they can share fermenting in a corny keg with a floating dip tube and a Pill?

****edit: Just saw @natmartin post above, submitted as I was typing. Thanks!!

 

[hotbeer]

I have an older Netgear router that I'm thinking of replacing

I had a very old apple airport express wifi router that I used at the house for way too long. I replaced it with a Ubiquiti Flex HD a couple years ago and things that plagued the wifi use at my house went away. I think the old wifi just didn't have the channel capability needed for all the overlapping wifi signals coming from my neighbors.

 

[natmartin]

On the subject of wifi, I'm using an Asus mesh setup, and I have a router in the same room, maybe 10 feet away, as the keg with the pill in it. No problem with signal quality, varies from -45dB to -65dB. Every once and a while a data point gets dropped, but overall it seems very consistent.

 

[RyPA]

Has anyone using a Rapt Pill tried fermenting in a corny keg with a Pill and a floating dip tube both at the same time? Just curious if the pill will get hung up under the floating dip tube.

FWIW, I now have fermented several beers while using my Pill and have no real complaints other than it occasionally not updating to the portal. These misses generally coincide with bad wifi readings. I've noticed it's quite good on sunny, low humidity days, but much worse when it's overcast and raining.

Current beer fermenting...

View attachment 812130

Yes, I've done it many times. Haven't had any issues with the floating dip tube. I do shake my keg a few times during fermentation, as I think this triggers a pill telemetry and would in the process shift it away from the dip tube if it was stuck.

 

[BongoYodeler]

New wireless charger "available" for the Rapt Pill.

https://www.kegland.com.au/wireless...dFvf_tD2iFEidrL_BfovLNr_5WSJFHn0grAnkM2JMT5WM

 

[dttk0009]

I just upgraded my lil brewing station quite a bit and among them was the Rapt pill, but I'm getting kinda wonky temp readings from it. Anyone else have a relatable experience?

I'm fiddling with the diagnostics, but even after setting a temp offset, it outputs higher temp readings after 3-4 minutes again. I'm currently at -3.5C offset so I think I'm probably just missing something, or is such a radical temp offset normal with the pill?

Does the pill, or rather, the probe heat up when it's in diagnostics mode (connected to wifi)? For example, I matched the temp with a trial run in the GF conical fermenter. Fermenter showed 25.5C and I matched the pill.

10 minutes later the fermenter shows 24.6 and the pill shows 25.1. This is also already after calibrating it last night just in a bowl of water using a thermometer.

 

[BongoYodeler]

I just upgraded my lil brewing station quite a bit and among them was the Rapt pill, but I'm getting kinda wonky temp readings from it. Anyone else have a relatable experience?

I'm fiddling with the diagnostics, but even after setting a temp offset, it outputs higher temp readings after 3-4 minutes again. I'm currently at -3.5C offset so I think I'm probably just missing something, or is such a radical temp offset normal with the pill?

Does the pill, or rather, the probe heat up when it's in diagnostics mode (connected to wifi)? For example, I matched the temp with a trial run in the GF conical fermenter. Fermenter showed 25.5C and I matched the pill.

10 minutes later the fermenter shows 24.6 and the pill shows 25.1. This is also already after calibrating it last night just in a bowl of water using a thermometer.

I too was getting weird temperature and gravity readings with mine for a bit. Make sure the battery is fully charged, (I assume you've done this already). What finally resolved mine was I removed the battery from the Pill for an hour or so and then replaced it. After calibrating the gravity in distilled water and setting the temperature offset, (-.2°C in my case), it was spot on for my most recent brew.

*Edit - make sure to mark the plastic casing with a Sharpie type marker to ensure you're closing up the pill to the same point each time you have to open it. This video explains it.

 

[bloombrews]

If you pressure ferment you can ruin them. I killed a Tilt Pro that way. But that was at 30psi. Also the Tilt Pro blue tooth connection was poor to none even with my phone sitting on the Sankey so I gave up on using them in it.

They are great in buckets though and it's fun to watch the gravity drop.

I have been using a Spunding valve on all of my fermenters, for the Lagers, and never needed, nor wanted to go above 15 p.s.i. Not sure why in the world you would ever want to ferment at 30? My CO2 volumes are as high as I want them at 15, and if you are after a super pillow head (like an Orval), then just hold 10-15 psi on the beer 1-3 days while in your keg or brite tank.

 

[bloombrews]

Per the FB group SS fermenters are somewhat common. Depending on how far the fermenter is from the router you may need an extender though.

I attempted to use my pills in my Ss Unitanks, and they are worthless. The signal may get a "Ping" through once every few days.
I am in the process of installing a MESH WiFi group, to see if this helps.
Also, wondering how this differs from the Tiltbridge, that @Thorrak created? Two things I see "different", are this one will work with the Pill (daaaa..), and the Tiltbridge has a LCD add-on support (NICE!).
Anything else I am missing here?

 

[bloombrews]

On the subject of wifi, I'm using an Asus mesh setup, and I have a router in the same room, maybe 10 feet away, as the keg with the pill in it. No problem with signal quality, varies from -45dB to -65dB. Every once and a while a data point gets dropped, but overall it seems very consistent.

I can not get a reliable signal out of my Ss Unitanks, and was going to set up a mesh router network this week.
Did you ever use your pills before the mesh? Just wondering if it will make a difference ?

 

[BongoYodeler]

I attempted to use my pills in my Ss Unitanks, and they are worthless. The signal may get a "Ping" through once every few days.
I am in the process of installing a MESH WiFi group, to see if this helps.
Also, wondering how this differs from the Tiltbridge, that @Thorrak created? Two things I see "different", are this one will work with the Pill (daaaa..), and the Tiltbridge has a LCD add-on support (NICE!).
Anything else I am missing here?

I've never used a Tilt so no comment there.

WRT the Pill's signal another, and a possibly cheaper solution, some are reporting success with pairing their Pill to a RAPT temperature controller via bluetooth. The controller (outside the Unitank) can then more reliably pass data via wifi. I already have an Inkbird so it's kind of hard to justify yet another controller, but the more I mess around with keg fermenting the more likely I'll eventually bite the bullet.

 

[KegLand]

It’s got more to do with making optimum profiles. At the moment our fermentation profiles are either:


1. Ferment at certain temp for a certain time.
and/or
2. Ferment to a specific gravity

These types of profiles are possible now with the combination of using the Pill and RAPT Temp Controller or RAPT Fermentation Chamber.

Some customers may find this type of control adequate but really we would like to go further than this and really look at fermentation speed/fermentation velocity as this allows a much more clever method to set fermentation temperature.

Most beers work the same way:

1. Hold the temp at a certain temperature during aerobic fermentation to control the level of ester production. (this step doesn’t change as you will still set the temp for X days at X temp)
2. After this you can control the profile completely using fermentation velocity. For instance if the fermentation velocity reduces to 5 points per day then increase temp to dialectal rest.
3. Once the fermentation velocity reduces to 0.5points per day then crash chill.

If you use steps 2 and 3 you can substantially optimise the fermentation process and speed up the whole ferment while keeping the fermentation at an ideal level of activity.

For instance if you look at lagers we often wait too long for a dialectal rest and then the yeast goes to sleep then its hard to wake the yeast up. Using the fermentation velocity rather than the specific gravity enables us to ensure a specific level of activity.

So with this type of control you can never use a yeast before and then make a robust profile. Even without knowing what gravity your recipe will finish at or how fast the yeast will ferment by using fermentation velocity you can control the process in an optimal way without knowing the actual the precise FG.

 

[natmartin]

I can not get a reliable signal out of my Ss Unitanks, and was going to set up a mesh router network this week.
Did you ever use your pills before the mesh? Just wondering if it will make a difference ?

No, I only started using the Pill with the mesh network in place. I also haven’t used the pill in my conical yet, just in kegs.

 

[bloombrews]

No, I only started using the Pill with the mesh network in place. I also haven’t used the pill in my conical yet, just in kegs.

MY 2 Pills are useless in my Ss Unitanks. I was thinking that there has to be a way, to attach a waterproof and <30psi proof, "antenna" to a Tri-Clamp. Then I could Triclamp it on, just like a thermowell, or heat-rod (etc...). This could let the wifi and Bluetooth signal escape, without the half-baked solutions, I have seen here so far.

 

[natmartin]

MY 2 Pills are useless in my Ss Unitanks. I was thinking that there has to be a way, to attach a waterproof and <30psi proof, "antenna" to a Tri-Clamp. Then I could Triclamp it on, just like a thermowell, or heat-rod (etc...). This could let the wifi and Bluetooth signal escape, without the half-baked solutions, I have seen here so far.

So, speaking as an electrical engineer, the problem is that the conical is a Faraday chamber, and the size of any RF-transparent apertures are pretty small when it's all sealed up.

You don't actually need any antennas going between the inside and the outside, you just need a small area of RF-transparent material. Most plastics and glass are RF transparent. So, if you found a glass or plastic TC blank that you could clamp on somewhere, that would do the trick. I know that Spike makes one for the 4" port (if you're not using the cooling coil.). I don't know if anyone makes any glass or plastic 1.5" ports.

A sight glass might do the trick too. For what it's worth, I used to have a lot of trouble getting the BT signal from Tilt out of my conical. Once I started adding a 2" sight glass on the dump port, I really haven't had any issues any more. So see if adding a sight glass somewhere helps you out.

My next batch in my conical I'll try a pill, and I'll report back if I have any issues.

 

[KegLand]

MY 2 Pills are useless in my Ss Unitanks. I was thinking that there has to be a way, to attach a waterproof and <30psi proof, "antenna" to a Tri-Clamp. Then I could Triclamp it on, just like a thermowell, or heat-rod (etc...). This could let the wifi and Bluetooth signal escape, without the half-baked solutions, I have seen here so far.

We have quite a few people using the Pill hydrometers in stainless steel fermenters so I know it works. If you want to use the Pill in a stainless fermenter than I would recommend that you either do 1 of 2 things below:

1. Use a Bluetooth repeater device and set it up as shown in this video:

This works great and it's my favorite solution but requires you to either have another RAPT device such as a Temp Controller or Chamber.

2. Improve your wifi signal and have a repeater very close to your stainless fermenter.

We do have an upgraded antenna that will be released soon for the Pill hydrometer and this will also make a difference but to be quite honest the PCB printed antenna is already pretty good as we spent quite a lot of time tuning this antenna to work well with the Pill so really options 1 or 2 above are the best options.

Also if you are wondering if 1 will fix your issue and if you wanted to check if your bluetooth signal being sent from the pill is strong enough before purchasing anther RAPT repeater device you can also easily download this here:
nRF Connect for Mobile – Apps on Google Play
Put the pill into your fermenter with bluetooth mode turned on. Then use your phone to see the dB of your bluetooth signal that is getting out of your stainless steel fermenter. If you are getting a signal strength of -80dB or better then this is ok. If you can get to -60dB or better then you will get a very solid connection with very little loss.

We also did testing with a stainless steel Kegmenter that was inside a RAPT fermentation chamber. The bluetooth signal was fine in this setup and this is asking quite a lot considering the two metal walls that the signal was going through.

 

[KegLand]

So, speaking as an electrical engineer, the problem is that the conical is a Faraday chamber, and the size of any RF-transparent apertures are pretty small when it's all sealed up.

You don't actually need any antennas going between the inside and the outside, you just need a small area of RF-transparent material. Most plastics and glass are RF transparent. So, if you found a glass or plastic TC blank that you could clamp on somewhere, that would do the trick. I know that Spike makes one for the 4" port (if you're not using the cooling coil.). I don't know if anyone makes any glass or plastic 1.5" ports.

A sight glass might do the trick too. For what it's worth, I used to have a lot of trouble getting the BT signal from Tilt out of my conical. Once I started adding a 2" sight glass on the dump port, I really haven't had any issues any more. So see if adding a sight glass somewhere helps you out.

My next batch in my conical I'll try a pill, and I'll report back if I have any issues.

We have stared to manufacture PPSU sight glasses so you could try these:

2" PPSU sight glass
3" PPSU sight glass

We have been very happy with PPSU in general as the plastic is incredible, has very high chemical resistance, is almost indestructible, has very high temperature resistance. It's also transparent too which is one of the main benefits. The only issue is the plastic is substantially more expensive than stainless steel. So you could also give this a go too.