Kegland Oxebar corny kegs 20L/5.2gal

[KegLand]

Does Kegland recommend prolonged contact with sodium percarbonate/sodium carbonate cleaners like Oxiclean for their PET vessels?
I recall there were issues with Better Bottles (also PET) where that caused crazing and eventually cracking.
If that is the case, PBW might be the better option...

Cheers!

Just to be specific it's not so much the "sodium percarbonate" itself as this particular chemical is fine. The issues is that many of the formulations that use Sodium Percarbonate also use an additional agent called "sodium metasilicate". Sodium Metasilicate is the specific ingredient that is the issue.

If you use just sodium percarbonate then you can leave that in the tank indefinitely but sodium metasilicate degrade PET and also many other plastics too especially when in contact for extended periods. So any product that contains sodium metasilicate we would recommend contact time of 15min or less.

To be honest after more than 15min there is really no point to use these types of oxidizing cleaners as they they are mostly decomposed already after 15 min so you are not really getting any benefit from a cleaning point of view to leave the cleaner in for longer than this anyway.

 

[Somesaymybeerisdrinkable]

I got one of these as a fermenter too. I have an IPA fermenting in mine right now

The last few batches I was using corny kegs as pressure ferment, which works fine. I like these since can see inside to watch fermentation (not necessary but sometimes I like to), and will make it easier to know when to stop transferring to serving keg. Also my Tilt hydrometer gets better range than it does with a metal keg.

 

[Bassman2003]

Just to be specific it's not so much the "sodium percarbonate" itself as this particular chemical is fine. The issues is that many of the formulations that use Sodium Percarbonate also use an additional agent called "sodium metasilicate". Sodium Metasilicate is the specific ingredient that is the issue.

If you use just sodium percarbonate then you can leave that in the tank indefinitely but sodium metasilicate degrade PET and also many other plastics too especially when in contact for extended periods. So any product that contains sodium metasilicate we would recommend contact time of 15min or less.

To be honest after more than 15min there is really no point to use these types of oxidizing cleaners as they they are mostly decomposed already after 15 min so you are not really getting any benefit from a cleaning point of view to leave the cleaner in for longer than this anyway.

Thanks for the clarification. I see these cleaners along with PBW in the same way. Most of the hard work is done in 15 minutes unless you have really dried, old caked on stuff which benefits from long soak exposure. One way to improve the short term cleaning power is to raise the temperature of your water above the 160F recommendation. Higher temps favor the ingredients that fall off quickly anyway.

 

[jschein]

Thanks for the clarification. I see these cleaners along with PBW in the same way. Most of the hard work is done in 15 minutes unless you have really dried, old caked on stuff which benefits from long soak exposure. One way to improve the short term cleaning power is to raise the temperature of your water above the 160F recommendation. Higher temps favor the ingredients that fall off quickly anyway.

That won’t work on the oxebar keg, they are only rated to 113f (45c)

 

[Bassman2003]

I did not know that! That kind of eliminates the use of all of these oxy-type cleaners to begin with. Makes things complicated.

 

[corncob]

The internet believes that oxyclean free doesn't have sodium metasilicate, and that's why it doesn't work as well as pbw.

I've never used anything but oxyclean free with a drop of dish detergent, so I don't know what I'm missing I guess. Heck, probably a 24 hour soak in plain water would work just as well. Either way, I have never had to scrub.

 

[Broken Crow]

Since it's moved on to chemical reactions and @KegLand is weighing in; Do you suppose this keg would be suitable for long-term storage of Star San? I have a Series-X kegerator so these won't fit, but as far as Star San use goes, I'm in the 'keep it for about a month or so before discarding' camp. I used to use a 7G Fermonster to store my Star San, but as I'm disabled I just can't move the thing about so I went to saving only 5G of the 7 1/2G I need for my clean/sanitize/purge routine (I overfill my kegs, letting Star San run out the open lid and a disconnect on the gas post and then through the PRV, so I need more than 5G).
I keep a 5G bucket of my last batch of Star San on top of an upturned milk crate in the area I do my cleaning until next time, and use it for topping up what I mix in the current keg. I'm thinking I could buy a pair of these kegs, lashing them to a simple cart to store my Star San in. Is this possible, or will the fittings break down from long term Star San exposure?
(PS: Apologies for derailing the thread above)

 

[fluketamer]

i am almost positive i saw long term stoarge of starsan in oxebar kegs is fine but i cant find it.

heres a discussion of long term PET starsan contact :


https://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=80398

"A weak solution of Starsan will be fine in many plastics. Look on the bottom of the bottle/ drum and you should see a triangle. If it says 2 it will be HDPE which will be fine, and is the polymer used to make the Starsan container. PET (soft drinks bottles) will also be fine for a solution"

the fermzilla instructions say prolonged starsan isnt an issue. but i am just realizing these are much different than fermzilla PET .

ie . temperature tolerances

i have had starsan in PET growlers. without a problem for months.

in UK sister sight a lot fo users store their PET bottles (usually coopers) with starsan.

 

[KegLand]

Since it's moved on to chemical reactions and @KegLand is weighing in; Do you suppose this keg would be suitable for long-term storage of Star San? I have a Series-X kegerator so these won't fit, but as far as Star San use goes, I'm in the 'keep it for about a month or so before discarding' camp. I used to use a 7G Fermonster to store my Star San, but as I'm disabled I just can't move the thing about so I went to saving only 5G of the 7 1/2G I need for my clean/sanitize/purge routine (I overfill my kegs, letting Star San run out the open lid and a disconnect on the gas post and then through the PRV, so I need more than 5G).
I keep a 5G bucket of my last batch of Star San on top of an upturned milk crate in the area I do my cleaning until next time, and use it for topping up what I mix in the current keg. I'm thinking I could buy a pair of these kegs, lashing them to a simple cart to store my Star San in. Is this possible, or will the fittings break down from long term Star San exposure?
(PS: Apologies for derailing the thread above)

Yes long term storage of Star San is no problem at all. The PET and POK and also all the rubbers we use have a high resistance to acid including lactic, acetic, LABS acid and phosphoric acid as well as many other acids.

So you can keep these acids even in high concentration in the Oxebar kegs indefinitely. It's really just the PBW (sodium metasilicate) that is an issue and also the high temperatures that were mentioned in the previous post.

 

[KegLand]

The internet believes that oxyclean free doesn't have sodium metasilicate, and that's why it doesn't work as well as pbw.

I've never used anything but oxyclean free with a drop of dish detergent, so I don't know what I'm missing I guess. Heck, probably a 24 hour soak in plain water would work just as well. Either way, I have never had to scrub.

Yes that is the issue. Many customers use products like Oxyclean and some formulations of sodium percarbonate based cleaners but if this is the only ingredient they generally dont act on a wide range of soiling. If you use 100% sodium percarbonate for instance you end up with residue building up on the container wall. For instance sodium percarbonate is completely ineffective at removing oils. Also if you live in area with hard water this also is an issue too. In my opinion you are still better off going for more complex formulations that have a number of active ingredients so you get a broader acting cleaner. Sodium metasilicate is fantastic stuff but you just have to use it carefully and limit the contact time.

 

[VTMongoose]

The "Chubby Apollo 30L Pressure Fermenter with Wide Mouth and Integrated Handles" has some great ideas. Though I see it listed at $70 (USD? Or is that $47 USD?) and I am not sure when these will be available in the US.
https://www.kegking.com.au/chubby-apollo-30l-pressure-fermenter.html

Dude,

This thing looks awesome. Similar to fermonsters but actually capable of holding pressure. Really hope these come to the US.

 

[rmr9]

I have a question about these kegs…I was thinking of buying a stainless growler to share my next batch with some on a trip with some friends but I know growlers aren’t perfect. Would it be possible to pressure transfer from a keg into say a 1 gallon oxebar, then swap the tap head for the regular cap and use as a growler?

 

[corncob]

I have a question about these kegs…I was thinking of buying a stainless growler to share my next batch with some on a trip with some friends but I know growlers aren’t perfect. Would it be possible to pressure transfer from a keg into say a 1 gallon oxebar, then swap the tap head for the regular cap and use as a growler?

Yes. It's just a bottle once you put the cap on it.

 

[KegLand]

I have a question about these kegs…I was thinking of buying a stainless growler to share my next batch with some on a trip with some friends but I know growlers aren’t perfect. Would it be possible to pressure transfer from a keg into say a 1 gallon oxebar, then swap the tap head for the regular cap and use as a growler?

Yes you can easily just switch from the tapping head to the cap that comes included with the oxebar keg. That is no problem at all.

 

[VTMongoose]

just kegged a munich helles after 5 days pressure fermenting in this keg. it worked perfectly.

my concern of kreusen cleaning was baseless as a 3 hour oxyclean soak cleaned this thing spotless.

i have seen a few websites i think williams for one, advertise this as a pressure fermenter and rightly so.

i know kelgand doesn't recommend it but this thing was flawless as a fermenter. I am a little sad that the fermzilla staring at me lonely and neglected in the corner for the past few weeks will not be put to use again for a long time if ever.

i got two of these as i said before. omg , i could make 9 gallons of beer! -

Question for you guys that are fermenting in these. How much do you reckon I can cram in there while spunding before the krausen height becomes an issue? I'm going to try a ferment-and-serve with 34/70 this weekend. Will chill to 50 and then pull it out to RT and let her rip, see if I can get a fast lager done.

 

[fluketamer]

i brewed to 4.5 gallons cause i was worried that the width compared to my fermzilla was so narrow that the kreusen would be much higher.

i left the spundy off for the first 24 hours because of that. the kreusen only was about an inch or so. then i put spundy on and set it to 12.


i could have easily got 5 gallons in there without issue and will brew to 5 next time.

it was a helles with 1 pack of 34/70 at 70 degrees and it was done in 5 days but the last 3 days didnt move at all so it actually finished in like 48 hours!!!

with NO OFF FLAVORS.

i would say 5 gallons is no problem . granted different worts im sure will have an affect on the height of the kreusen. i have heard ferm cap will help but i dont like the idea of adding anything else to my beers so i would rather just make a slightly smaller batch.

 

[VTMongoose]

i brewed to 4.5 gallons cause i was worried that the width compared to my fermzilla was so narrow that the kreusen would be much higher.

i left the spundy off for the first 24 hours because of that. the kreusen only was about an inch or so. then i put spundy on and set it to 12.


i could have easily got 5 gallons in there without issue and will brew to 5 next time.

it was a helles with 1 pack of 34/70 at 70 degrees and it was done in 5 days but the last 3 days didnt move at all so it actually finished in like 48 hours!!!

with NO OFF FLAVORS.

i would say 5 gallons is no problem . granted different worts im sure will have an affect on the height of the kreusen. i have heard ferm cap will help but i dont like the idea of adding anything else to my beers so i would rather just make a slightly smaller batch.

I can tell you fermcap definitely makes a huge difference. The Weihenstephan W68 strain which is the workhorse for brewing Hefeweizens is known to create a huge Krausen like Westmalle and Hoegaarden and other expressive yeast strains. I would say my krausen is only half of the height with 1-2 drops per gallon. Zero effect on head retention - my hefeweizens always have epic head retention because of my step mash regimen.

 

[fluketamer]

two of these fit inside my vevor kegerator with room to spare. i threw on an inkbird and i have a kolsch fermenting in there right now. its hard not to just serve out of there since it has the floating diptube already. i can just spund it to carb it up then cold crash it then serve. i dont really see a reason to move it to a keg except that it will take up valuable chilling space.

its a good problem to have.

 

[corncob]

After draining a few of these, I have realized that I cut my dip tubes too short and tend to lose a pint or two at the end. I have ordered new silicone tubing and will re-do them. It seems like the line should be long enough for the filter to lie flat on the bottom of the keg with zero tension in the line. Otherwise the filter will stand up straight and draw in CO2 along with the last of the beer, which is no good.

 

[fluketamer]

i have either read or saw on a video somewhere that the dip tube shoudl be cut so that the floating ball is dangling just at the bottom of the keg but not touching it. i have noticed that with my two it is very difficult to achieve this perfectly. but i have got mine nice and close and leave behind ony about a cup of beer which works nice to swirl up the cake for transfer to mason jar for reuse.

i dont liek the fact that i can only get my ispindel out of there by filling the oxebar all the way to the top with water. i hate wasting that 5 gallons of water just to get out my ispindel.

these are really great, fun, fermenter/kegs

 

[VTMongoose]

So far I am loving these three kegs I bought. I already wish I had bought double as many when they were on sale.

The two kegs you see in my small chest freezer have been flawless. The one you see here being used to ferment my second beer under pressure has had issues with a very slow leak. This is also the only one of the three that did not come out of the box pressurized, so clearly there is a defect somewhere. I have taken it apart multiple times to no avail. It holds pressure for a few hours without issue but eventually overnight always goes flat. My experience with the Oxebar 2.2 gallons tells me it's likely in the lid and/or one of the two fittings, which I've sprayed with starsan to try to find the leak, but no dice. Unfortunately this means ultimately the whole keg just needs to be tossed as reusing any of the parts puts me at risk for a leak.

Fortunately MoreBeer offered to replace it for me free of charge, and didn't require me to return the keg. Therefore until its replacement arrives I'll use it for fermentation of spunded beer#2 and then transfer it to one of the good kegs that just kicked last night, like I ultimately had to do with spunded beer #1. I cannot speak highly enough of their customer service.