keggle for a complete newbie

[michaeljdowling]

i'm just getting into brewing and i mean JUST getting into it, i've never brewed before. the idea actually came from my wife and i agreed it's a good fit and i love a good hobby i can obsess over (i also play the fiddle, weight-lift, fix and ride motorcycles all rather obsessively).

anyway so my kitchen is tiny and i really didn't want to invest money into anything i would quickly outgrow. i have a good relationship with my beer distributor so he'll get me old kegs for $20 a piece. so I'm looking at building a 2 or 3 tier system.

so far i have one keg cut (not the best cut i admit):

anyway the biggest issue i have is most sites while very informative assume some level of prior knowledge of which i have none. what i'm looking for is a good book that can give me a solid step by step towards brewing and setting up a solid home brewery?

thanks!

 

[jaythebassist]

Welcome. I drove through Goshen a few weeks ago to and from Cooperstown for the beer festival at Ommegang.

uhh, read this entire site: http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

And to make straighter cuts in the keggles, watch this video:

 

[michaeljdowling]

Welcome. I drove through Goshen a few weeks ago to and from Cooperstown for the beer festival at Ommegang.

uhh, read this entire site: http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

And to make straighter cuts in the keggles, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LthGdMk_avk

thanks for the reply i'll read that site end to end tonight and tomorrow.

as for the cut i was going to build a jig but this keg did not have a retaining clip, i could not remove the spear so i used a string for a guideline but i had to open the hole up with a grinder and that's where i lost it. i guess my biggest question is what kind of a seal do you need on the keggles? i'm going to build a jig for the next two cuts. if i'm understanding correctly the boiler really doesn't need a top at all so even thought this cut won't accommodate a lid it should work fine for a boiler? for the fermenter do you need a tight seal with a breather valve? or is fermenting with just a lose lid ok?(because i assume it's tough to get a perfect fit with a store bought lit jig or not).

thanks a lot

 

[jaythebassist]

right, you don't even really need lids for HLT, BK or MLT.

I don't use a keggle to ferment in. I'd recommend an ale pail or 2 before using a sanke keg.

If you watch that vid, Bobby uses a jig that sits inside the openeing for the diptube, so it doesn't matter if the rails are straight or not.

 

[Golddiggie]

I used a PVC T fitting as a guide when cutting my first keg top... Worked great. Just hold the tool as you run around. Of course, I did draw a circle as a guide, so that I KNEW where to cut.

Lids are very useful in the mash tun, and boil kettle since it helps you to maintain temperatures. In the boil kettle, it helps you to get up to a boil easier. In a mash tun, it helps you to keep the mash at the temp you wanted. Once you have a boil going in the boil kettle/keggle, you usually leave the lid off (or at least partially off).

For fermenting in kegs, just remove the spear. It's not that difficult, depressureize the keg, remove the retention ring, and remove the valve/spear. Then clean with PBW/oxyclean and one of the keg cleaners. I've done this with several sanke kegs now. I have two with brew in them right now... I have two more waiting for batches to be made to go into them. I expect to never use plastic, or glass for that matter, to ferment beer in ever again.

I wouldn't try using a KEGGLE to ferment in, since that's NOT what they're for. Kegs, on the other hand, make GREAT fermenters (and aging tanks too).

 

[michaeljdowling]

I wouldn't try using a KEGGLE to ferment in, since that's NOT what they're for. Kegs, on the other hand, make GREAT fermenters (and aging tanks too).

ok so you don't cut the fermenting keg at all then? you just remove the spear (i've seen the videos and it looks simple but this keg here didn't have a retaining clip to pull out). what do you put in the hole while fermenting? a bubbler or valve or something? also how do you clean the fermenter if you don't cut the top? thanks!

i can get that black top on this keg but there are a few spots that have gaps so it isn't a great fit but should help getting it up to boil. i suppose i could trash this one and start over no big deal really i can probably get more for scrap than what i paid for it from the BD.

 

[runningweird]

welcome to the obsession. I love the skull paint job.

 

[Golddiggie]

If it's a BMC keg (or most American beer makers branded) then it should have the retention ring that's a few layers thick. I simply use a large screwdriver (and towel) to depress the ball in the middle of the valve to get it to release any pressure inside the keg. Then look for the two notches in the opening, inspect the ring to find the one that's closest to the end of the ring, and use a small flat head screwdriver to pry up just one layer of the ring, get under it, then go back and then forward to run under it for it's entire length. I probably should have shot a video, or several pictures, the last time I did one. I will when I do another one.

There are companies that sell the ring removal tools. You might want to get one if you're having issues removing them. Personally, I've yet to come across a keg that the above method didn't work with. Sometimes you need to release the pressure a few times, and make sure it's fully released, before you can get the ring out. I use the towel to cover the entire valve area so that I don't get sprayed with nasty beer. Had that happen once, never again. I also place mine in the tub, so that it's easy to clean up after.

Look at keg/carboy cleaner tool. It goes into a drill chuck and then pads spin to get the sides clean. I put about 1/4-1/2 a keg of PBW solution in mine when cleaning for the first time. After that, a gallon, or two is all that's needed. I use the keg cleaner in them each time, just to be sure. You can also get a spray wand to connect to a faucet (hose) and spray inside the keg through the valve opening.

I've been installing a large universal bung, and airlock, into my keg fermenters. I might, at some point, pick up the keg fermenting kit (or a few of them) to give that a try. Especially for when I age some batches again. Since I'm serving from kegs too (ball-lock) now, I have plenty of OC2 to use to push brew from one keg to another (for transferring from primary to aging vessel/tank)...

I used the bung as a guide when getting the T fitting. I believe it's 1-1/4" PVC, easily found at Lowe's or Home Depot. I'm planning on getting a cordless right angle grinder before I cut my next keg. I'll use the same T fitting with that tool. I expect to not have any trouble getting a good cut this way. Sure, I could rig up a jig to make the cut, but I can take my time, going slower, and make several passes. I'd rather have less gear to do this one job. I cut my current keg so that you can read both lines of large text on the top. So the hole is about 10-1/4" diameter.

For the gap between the opening and keg top, you could use some silicon tubing to take up the gap. I tried some 3/8" the first time, but didn't like the result. I might try some 1/2" next time. Or I'll just get a cheap lid from BB&B and not worry about it. Since I'll be adding Reflectix to my mash tun keg, it won't matter so much.

 

[jaythebassist]

If it's a BMC keg (or most American beer makers branded) then it should have the retention ring that's a few layers thick. I simply use a large screwdriver (and towel) to depress the ball in the middle of the valve to get it to release any pressure inside the keg. Then look for the two notches in the opening, inspect the ring to find the one that's closest to the end of the ring, and use a small flat head screwdriver to pry up just one layer of the ring, get under it, then go back and then forward to run under it for it's entire length. I probably should have shot a video, or several pictures, the last time I did one. I will when I do another one.

You can see that in detail in the previously posted video.

 

[michaeljdowling]

i'll get a pic of the top i cut off it's still in my backyard, this keg must be an odd ball because it didn't have a retaining clip in it that i could see, there was nowhere to stick a screwdriver and nothing to pry out, the spear wouldn't budge at all. i first tapped the keg and used the release to get the air out, then pushed the ball down and drilled a hole in the top for good measure to make sure there was no pressure.

 

[Golddiggie]

I tend to skip over 99.995% of video's posted online...

Only kegs I've seen that don't use retention clips/rings are European. I have two 25L kegs that are Italian, that I ferment in. I got them without the valves installed (save a few dollars each that way). They're threaded inside the neck, where the valve goes in. You might have one of those on your hands.

 

[michaeljdowling]

is there a consensus on the fittings to use? i was looking at the weldless mash conversion kit but two things bother me:

1. 10 inch false bottom seems to small for a keg
2. price tag, this seems like a simple setup but i feel like it can be done cheaper

unfortunately i can't weld (although i'm debating to get a welding kit and start because this isn't the first time i wish i knew how to weld.)

anyway for the boiler and mash tun i was looking at buying this setup instead of the false bottom, any opinions on it?

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Bazooka-Screen.html

http://www.rebelbrewer.com/shoppingcart/products/Kettle-Conversion-Kit-Deluxe-PLUS.html

 

[Golddiggie]

For a keg to mash tun conversion, to be completely honest, I'd suggest going with a setup from NorCal/Jaybird... I did my conversion last weekend and it really didn't take much (once I had the info I needed to get it done). They're working on complete instructions for their kits, so it's easy for someone that's not done it before.

While the entire setup wasn't cheap, it's money well spent IMO... I went with a 15" hinged, handled, false bottom (drilled by them), dip tube assembly, weldless SS (3 Pc) ball valve setup for the bottom. I also picked up a 90 degree elbow and a second ball valve (also 3 Pc SS) for the recirculation fittings. I'm waiting for the SS QD's to be back in stock (at Rebel, and pretty much everyplace else) to match what I already have.

Jaybird will give you solid advice on what you need to do the job up right.

BTW, I have a 70qt cooler mash tun with the 'bazooka' screen/tube in it. You just need to be careful to not get a stuck sparge with it. So you'll need to be very careful about setting the grain bed when draining. I have a 10 gallon RubberMaid cooler mash tun that has had some issues with getting stuck too. The 10 gallon mash tun uses the "T" shaped screen. Since the straight one wouldn't fit.

I could have taken my setup to someone else to get them welded, but he went dark on me. Plus, the welds were not cheap (about $30 per weld). So I went weldless.

I would advise adding a thermometer just above the ball valve, like I did. Lower in the keg mash tun means you'll be set for both 5 and 10 gallon batches. If you want, you could even drill it up higher for a second location. Then, when you're mashing for 10 gallon batches, you just need to move the thermometer. Just be sure to have a plug in the hole you're not using.

Doing this up right won't be cheap, but it's something you'll only need to do once. If you go cheap now, chances are you'll end up spending more (total) since you'll get the better setup later. IMO, I'd rather just do it once and be done with it.

Oh, and plan to get some Reflectix from Lowe's/Home Depot and wrap the keg in it (plus layer it over the lid/top) to help maintain your mash temperatures.

 

[michaeljdowling]

i went to ikea on someones recommendation and they had these 13 inch stainless and glass lids which work perfect because i was able to open the hole and get a clean fit with it. $8.00 each lid which is a good price. oddly enough i did not have any old pot lids laying around and everyone i found was like on a port for $25 or $20 on their own. these are a little bigger than your average 12 inch pot lid which is nice because the hole is a bit larger to get in and out of.

i have my second keg at the BD to pick up and i'll work on that this weekend with a jig this time, this isn't going to become a winter project to do right, i won't have the money or time to get this all together before the weather hits, so i'll build it out while i brew in my kitchen with small batches before i jump into this. hopefully it will be ready to go next spring, thanks for all your help.

 

[danorocks17]

welcome to the obsession. I love the skull paint job.

+1 get ready for a never ending need for something better/bigger :fro: That skull IS pretty tight....