Kegging Help!

[n8r1]

Hi all--I used to homebrew a lot, but took a few years off, mostly because I really hated bottling my beer.

I was recently gifted a couple of Corny Kegs and a CO2 regulator, which I took down to the local homebrew shop and replaced all the rings and seals. When I left it was all in great working condition, so I'm not concerned about leaks.

Here's my problem--I cannot get my beer to carbonate. It is a vanilla cream ale, and it's been in the keg for a week now. I just poured a glass and it is completely flat, although it pours a good head. There are just no bubbles in the actual beer.

Here is the process I used:

I siphoned the beer from the secondary fermenter into the keg. The keg was about 1 inch from the top from being completely full.

Then I put the keg into the refrigerator for 24 hours to let it chill.

Next, I ran the CO2 line into the "Out" valve, and released the pressure 4 times, letting it build up for 30 seconds between releases. I could hear the CO2 bubbling from the bottom up through the beer after each release. Each release had a decent amount of pressure.

After purging out all the oxygen, I switched the line to the "In" valve, set the pressure to 12 PSI, and it let it sit like that for 7 days. Yesterday I poured a glass and it was flat.

So after that, I turned up the pressure to 25 and let it sit for about a day, and just tried to pour another glass. Still completely flat. No bubbles in the beer at all.

Just to make sure, I just sprayed diluted Star San all over the connections and nothing bubbled, so I'm pretty certain that there are no gas leaks.

Also, the beer is in a refrigerator and chilled to about 38 degrees.

I'm stuck. Does the beer just need more time or am I doing something wrong? Should I have left the line attached to the "Out" valve the entire time I wanted it to carbonate?

Thanks!

 

[DVCNick]

I never attach the gas to the "out" side.

Yeah I think you need more time and pressure. In my experience trying to carbonate at serving pressure is a very long process. What I do now is set it to a little over 30 psi for 48 hours, then turn it down to serving pressure and let it sit five more days at least. 10 days is better.

Also if your beverage out line is too short you will lose a lot of carbonation to foaming during the pour. Mine is 20ft, which most would say is excessive, but I don't see any downside to it. Even my first pour through a draft tower is not overly foamy as long as the glass is cool.

 

[DVCNick]

Also, you want to purge the oxygen (air) in the head space immediately. Don't wait 24 hours. You can do this by running CO2 into the gas in side and just popping the valve a few times.

 

[camonick]

With a keg that full, there’s not much surface area exposed to the CO2. Seven days might be a little on the short side. Now that you’ve pulled a little beer out and lowered the level out of the dome, it might carbonate better. Leaving the gas hooked to the “out” (gas) post is ok. Give it another 7 days and it’ll probably be good. The “set & forget” method isn’t fast, but almost impossible to goof up. You could rock or agitate the keg with the gas hooked up to expedite the process.

 

[Deadalus]

Yes pump it up to 30 psi, close the gas and shake it for a few minutes. Make sure to turn it sideways as much as possible. Turn the gas back on it you should hear gas going in. Repeat until no gas or very little goes in. I will do those a few times over the course of a day or two if I know the keg is very full. Then I leave it at serving pressure and test after a week. If it is not where I want it to be after a week I'll pump another 20 psi in it and recheck. This would be if the beer has carbonation but still has big bubbles no real head. Helps to have something else on tap!

I'd be watching your main gauge to see if you are losing gas if you absolutely have no carbonation.

 

[Deadalus]

Yes pump it up to 30 psi, close the gas and shake it for a few minutes. Make sure to turn it sideways as much as possible. Turn the gas back on it you should hear gas going in. Repeat until no gas or very little goes in. I will do those a few times over the course of a day or two if I know the keg is very full. Then I leave it at serving pressure and test after a week. If it is not where I want it to be after a week I'll pump another 20 psi in it and recheck. This would be if the beer has carbonation but still has big bubbles no real head. Helps to have something else on tap!

I'd be watching your main gauge to see if you are losing gas if you absolutely have no carbonation.

You could once you are starting to get carbonation at the end of the week process I mentioned set the psi to the desired CO2 volume based on your temperature and let it sit. I sometimes do that but even with something else on tap I get antsy after a week for a proper taste.

 

[Mtrhdltd]

Patience is key here. In my experience the only sure carbonation method is patience. At least two weeks at serving temp and co2 pressure, some styles longer. Ive found less than that and the beer tastes "green" still and is under carbonated. Your results may vary.

 

[n8r1]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. I've turned up the pressure a little bit, but it sounds like it is just going to take more time. This is ok because we are heading out of town for a while, so hopefully when we get back it will be ready to go.

 

[tracer bullet]

Agreed to basically all of the above but to stress / add:

* I do the shake and roll method as well for my initial burst carbonating, you can hear the bubbles going in and know it's helping
* Your line length and diameter goes a long ways as well, I recently went from 1/4" ID line ~ 2' long to 3/16" line ~ 5 feet long and wow what a difference in the glass, it seems flatter for sure because the existing CO2 isn't flash released during the pour

I'm still experimenting with line diameter & length vs. CO2 pressure myself, but I can guarantee my beer is carbonated, it's just a question of how much and how hard it is to tell. Just changing the line had a dramatic effect due to the pressure changes.

 

[camonick]

I'm still experimenting with line diameter & length vs. CO2 pressure myself

If using standard 3/16” beverage line, a good place to start is at least 1’ per psi of regulator pressure.

 

[n8r1]

One more thing--I just measured the lines, and my CO2-->Keg line is 3 1/2 feet, and my Keg-->Tab line is 4 feet. Is this enough hose?

 

[DVCNick]

CO2 line length doesn't matter.
Beer line length to the tap does matter. You should be able to find a thorough description of why, and calculators for how much line you need with a search, but, to high level summarize: If you want to pour at normal serving pressure without losing a bunch of carbonation during the pour, four feet isn't nearly enough. I'd triple that at a minimum and like I said, in my personal opinion there is zero downside to going longer.

If you want to pour without losing carbonation with 4ft, you'll have to carb till equilibrium at whatever normal pressure you want (probably +/- 12psi) but then you'll have to vent the keg down much lower when you want to actually pour. Then bump it back up for storage. Longer line will let you pour from normal serving pressure without worrying about adjusting pressure to do so.

 

[DVCNick]

One more suggestion.... when you replace that beer line, spend the little bit more money on the top shelf stuff. It won't leech bad flavors into your beer when it sits for a few days like the bargain basement stuff will.

 

[bracconiere]

you can hear the bubbles going in and know it's helping

i don't do it often, but i keep my co2 tank on a scale, and can even see the co2 tank losing weight.....if i wanted to i could probably burst carb to proper levels by weight....THANKS FOR THE IDEA!

 

[camonick]

Keg-->Tab line is 4 feet. Is this enough hose?

Your original post said you are serving at 12 psi. If you’re using regular 3/16” ID vinyl tubing, you’ll need at least 12’ of hose for an 11 second pour. If your tubing is 1/4” ID, you’ll need 47’. If you get something like 4mm EVAbarrier, you can get away with about 6’. Here is a good line length calculator— Beer Line Length Calculator

 

[n8r1]

I wanted to follow up on this. Thanks to everyone for your help. The beer finally got carbonated, but then it was pouring nothing but foam. I realized it was the short tap line which was only 4 feet. I switched out my tap line to a 12.5 foot hose, and that solved the problem. I'm now pouring clear, carbonated beer with the perfect head.

On a different subject, the apples in our neighborhood are a few weeks from ripening, so I'm getting ready to start making some hard cider. I'm sure I'll have some questions, but I'll start a new thread for that

Thanks all!