Keg Co2 Off Flavor

[macr023]

I know this has been discussed numerous times, I am asking for peoples experience with kegging and co2 and flavors.

I primary ferment in a bucket for 3 to 5 days. I transfer to a carboy for 2 weeks, sometimes a few days extra. Once in the keg I set it for 10psi at about 38 Fahrenheit. My cleaning/sanitization is fine, I use ecolox (maybe similar to pbw or oxyclean) for cleaning and aseptox (no rinse ) for sanitizing. I replaced my beer line from a local homebrew store, and changed all orings plus poppet.

I notice once I keg, the first pour is awesome but flat and warm. After 2 days I start to notice an off flavor. I would sometimes leave it a few more days and the flavor fluctuates. Example first pour is great, almost perfect, then as I have more it comes back. But if I leave the keg alone again for a day, the next day its tastes decent / good for the first pour.

I admit I cannot leave the keg alone for 2 or 3 weeks while it matures and would like to know if that could be the reason. I am guessing by pulling a glass here and there during the carbonation process, I end up interrupting it with the pressure fluctuation. I just poured myself a half pint and it was almost as good as when I kegged it. I poured another half pint and I had that off flavor again. Also I noticed how the first half pint always has way more head and tastes better. So with this less tasty second half pint, I swirled it quite a bit and got a decent head, and slowly the taste got better.

I question my Co2, but also I question my impatience and the effect its having on the beer. I Would like to know other peoples input cause if I have to wait, I cannot understand how some people drink from their kegs after a few days of force carbonation. I find the flavors are off / gross, but it seems even after three weeks I can still experience mild off flavor, but definately better. Sadly I never had a keg survive longer then 3 1/2 weeks.

 

[BierMuncher]

...Sadly I never had a keg survive longer then 3 1/2 weeks.

^ ^ ^ This ^ ^ ^

...is your issue. You are finishing a keg of beer at the time when it should be coming on line.

Fluctuation in flavors (for a myriad of reasons) is common the first week or more in a keg... depending upon the recipe.

If you are only setting your PSI to 10 to force carbonate, you are following the low/slow patient method. But by contrast, you are consuming the beer at the same time. If you are in a hurry to get the beer to drinkable CO2 levels, set the PSI to 30 for about 30 hours, then taste and adjust.

 

[seminoleAle]

is your co2 food grade or industrial grade?

 

[macr023]

I have done 2 kegs setting at 30 PSI for a day then 20psi second day. I did get carbonation much quicker, but also the off flavor came in with it.

The off flavors I experience are rather nasty, but yet I read often about how some homebrewers start drinking from their kegs within days of force carbonation. Even the local home brew store guy said how maybe i'm just tasting something that some people cannot taste. I question the company that filled up my co2 tank, they claim food grade but I did not go with my local home brew store cause they are rather far away. I am shocked because if I'm experiencing carbonic acid, man its not good, but I believe it could very well be, because the flavor comes and goes and seems related to how often I pour a pint. Also I read how I should leave a keg sit for 3 weeks, but... since i'm always picking at it, will that extend the three weeks ?

 

[macr023]

is your co2 food grade or industrial grade?

The guy claims its food grade. But lets just say its not. can the cylinder by easily emptied and refilled without off flavors. Will I need a special flushing ?

 

[bja]

is your co2 food grade or industrial grade?

The guy claims its food grade. But lets just say its not. can the cylinder by easily emptied and refilled without off flavors. Will I need a special flushing ?

CO2 is CO2. There's no difference.

 

[Wolfhound180]

I got a sanitary inline filter and put it before my split on my co2 line. I was having horrible off flavors no matter how long I left it. It's all good now.

 

[macr023]

I got a sanitary inline filter and put it before my split on my co2 line. I was having horrible off flavors no matter how long I left it. It's all good now.

Can you give me a link to what a sanitary inline filter is, I searched and see so many different kinds.

 

[Wolfhound180]

I'm not sure how to link but I got it from northern brewer. SKU: 7861. It was like 2.50 I think.

 

[sudsmcgee]

I had an off flavor on my first kegged beer. I rushed carbonation, and had a mixture of carbonic acid bite and oxidation since I forgot to purge the keg before shaking.

My $.02:

1) Don't forget to purge air from the keg

2)Don't rush carbonation if you don't want off flavors

 

[macr023]

I'm not sure how to link but I got it from northern brewer. SKU: 7861. It was like 2.50 I think.

Thanks, I found it. You had no problems with that filter breaking on pressure. Whats the highest psi you run through that ?

 

[Wolfhound180]

Thanks, I found it. You had no problems with that filter breaking on pressure. Whats the highest psi you run through that ?

Nope. I keep it at 12psi almost always.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think the issue has something to do with carbonic acid accentuating the flavors associated with young/green beer. Any bit of astringency or yeasty flavors just jump out. Let the keg mellow. No amount of CO2 swapping is going to fix this.

 

[Golddiggie]

Buy some willpower and use the two week set and forget carbonation method. Also ditch using a secondary (except where it makes 100% sense) and go with the longer primary method. I typically run 3-4 weeks in primary (for my normal ales) and have had zero issue with the two week carbonation method. You could also try the method outlined by Bobby_M in the sticky, if you wish.

 

[macr023]

Buy some willpower and use the two week set and forget carbonation method. Also ditch using a secondary (except where it makes 100% sense) and go with the longer primary method. I typically run 3-4 weeks in primary (for my normal ales) and have had zero issue with the two week carbonation method. You could also try the method outlined by Bobby_M in the sticky, if you wish.

I've had my keg on co2 for over 3 weeks, this is with pulling a 1/2 pint here and there, and even at the 3 week mark there was a hint of this flavor. I just poured 3/4 of a pint and its there but a little different. But still there. I just question how people start drinking after a few days if this is carbonic acid im experiencing.

 

[Golddiggie]

My brews typically go 3-4 weeks, or longer, in primary before I transfer them to serving kegs. Then one goes into the brew fridge for chilling and carbonation (if there's a spot available). Then it's ~2 weeks (or longer) at serving pressure and temperature to carbonate. I carbonate my porters and brown ales lower than my pale ales and IPA recipes. IME, the brews kegged and carbonated this way are excellent. I have no off flavors from being over carbonated (or doing rapid forced carbonation) when I pour pints.

Tonight I had a pint of my MO SMaSH (12psi at ~40F) and English brown ale (10psi) and both are excellent with no off flavors. I get my CO2 tanks filled by a fire extinguisher service shop (damned great prices). I also have some paintball gun CO2 bottles that I get filled from a local shop. Neither give any off flavors to the brews.

 

[chumpsteak]

I normally force carb my kegs with 30 psi for 24 hours then 20 psi for 24 hours then set it at serving pressure. In some cases the beers are drinkable after 36 hours, but most still don't peak and sometimes taste funky for a good 2 or 3 weeks longer. I have an IPA in the keg now that tasted great after 1 week, then 2 days later tasted horrible. It's now been in the keg for a little over 2 weeks and it tastes great again. I find that most of my really hoppy beers fluctuate in flavor for the first 3 weeks then settle in to deliciousness. I've learned never to judge a beer until it's been in the keg and carbed for at least 3 weeks. The solution is to make more beer and get more taps so you always have beer ready to go. I have 5 taps and usually only 3 of them are really ready to drink at any given time.

 

[macr023]

I'm going to order 2 more kegs and 1 more tap. I figure I can always be rotating. I really just hope the flavors I am experiencing are from impatience and I will leave my current keg alone and see how my American stout turns out.

I also have a amber in my secondary thats been sitting for a little over a week.

I read many times and will practice this for my next batch. That is the long single primary fermentation. I really like the idea and seems to make a lot of sense.

I will post more updates on how things turn out.

 

[AiredAle]

Do you purge the air from the keg before filling it? You may have an issue with oxidation as well as young beer flavors. If you haven't purged the oxygen with CO2, you are allowing the beer to suck up oxygen from the air as you fill the keg.

I purge my cornies by connecting the CO2 line to the liquid in fitting (use a liquid in fitting...) and letting the gas in slowly, so it doesn't mix much with the air, and pushes it out of the pressure release valve. Which I open by the way, so this is done at atmospheric pressure. I will let the gas run until I can smell it coming out of the PR valve, then rack the beer into the keg, it is now protected from O2 by a keg full of CO2.

Others purge in different ways, I like this way. Try it and see if it makes a difference to the flavors you are getting.

 

[seminoleAle]

Do you purge the air from the keg before filling it? You may have an issue with oxidation as well as young beer flavors. If you haven't purged the oxygen with CO2, you are allowing the beer to suck up oxygen from the air as you fill the keg.

I purge my cornies by connecting the CO2 line to the liquid in fitting (use a liquid in fitting...) and letting the gas in slowly, so it doesn't mix much with the air, and pushes it out of the pressure release valve. Which I open by the way, so this is done at atmospheric pressure. I will let the gas run until I can smell it coming out of the PR valve, then rack the beer into the keg, it is now protected from O2 by a keg full of CO2.

Others purge in different ways, I like this way. Try it and see if it makes a difference to the flavors you are getting.

Do you also Carb your beer with gas line connected to liquid in? I just added a liquid connector to my gas line to blow back any hop sediment that gets in my uptake tube, and will also use this for carbing.

 

[Golddiggie]

Or you could get/make one of these... I actually picked up the parts I needed to make one from a spare lid (I have a few spare lids actually) to try out. I decided to use mfl connections for the hose to the lid connection as well as the stone (got the stone from the same vendor with the MFL fitting). Since I have the lid, which was used already (but in great condition) it's costing me less to make than to buy the one linked to. If you don't want to put one together yourself, it's something to consider.

Also, since you carbonate faster with the stone method, I would make damned sure the brew is 100% ready for drinking before kegging it. Give it longer in bulk form (primary, secondary, or let it sit in the keg outside the fridge for a week or two) before chilling it down and carbonating it.

I just need to check the clearance in my brew fridge to see if I can use the lid in there. If not, then I'll use it once I move and also have a keezer setup (or larger brew fridge with more room in it).

 

[AiredAle]

seminoleAle,

No, I don't carb through the liquid fitting, but through the gas fitting. I carb like many do, 30 psi, swirl the keg about for a while until I get tired, then let it sit under that pressure for 24 h, then put in fridge to cold crash. I usually carb at room temperature, some do it cold, probably faster to do when the beer is cold. This works for me, and I serve my ales at 50 F and 12 psi CO2 pressure.

 

[seminoleAle]

AiredAle,
Sounds good.