Keg Carb Mystery

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Wagon_6

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I’ve got a 3 tap kegerator with a 3 - way distributor. I have a bourbon porter (aged with wood staves), double IPA, and amber lager on tap. Both the IIPA and lager carbed up normally. But I can’t get the porter to carbonate at all, dead flat. Even more weird is the CO2 clearly pushes the beer out to the tap and I can hear CO2 going in.

my normal carbing procedure is to set to 30 psi for first 24 hours and then 12 psi serving. I started that for both these beers on 12/29. I’ve kegged countless beers and never had this problem. Thoughts?
 
Do you have any headspace in the beer? (I'm assuming yes, since you've poured some). It should have carbed "the slow way" by now even without the burst carb.
 
Yup. Even saw it was there when I pulled the wood out. I had a thought maybe it froze but it has flowed perfectly every time I pour to check. Kegerator is set to 38F.
 
Lines aren't possibly connected backwards with the IN line only picking up beer because the keg is mostly full?

Is it really foamy but not carbed? Leaky o ring on the out dip tube..

That's all the guesses I can think of, not enough surface area to carb quickly, backwards where the big bubbles are stripping the CO2 out, or leaky o ring discharging CO2 into the beer out line.
 
Also how long are your lines and how big is your sample? Couldn't be just pouring the uncarbed beer from the line? 😐
 
fwiw, 12 feet of 3/16" ID beer line holds roughly 2.2 ounces of beer.
6 feet of 4mm ID beer line holds a touch more than 0.75 ounces of beer.

Having the tap connected to the short keg dip tube happens, but it's usually pretty obvious :)
While I suspect it won't really add any insight, maybe just for the heck of it, swap tap lines and see what happens.

Otherwise, I would triple check the porter keg isn't leaking gas...

Cheers!
 
@jddevinn - Gas/Liquid is correct, I mark the kegs with painters tape. The lines are around 7 feet and I thought of that too so I’ve poured a quarter beer to clear what’s in the lines and then poured most of a beer to check carb level. Let’s just say I have poured more than a few for the homies. Really painful since it’s a 2 month aged porter with 16 ounces of Michter’s.

@day_trippr I’ve been scratching my head so much I was ready to let a CO2 leak happen but it’s still going strong, no signs. I think it is time to switch lines around to see what happens.

Could some kind of residue/oil on the wood spirals prevent a liquid from absorbing CO2? I may also move the porter back to my aging fridge on a different regulator and see what happens.
 
And my keg cleaning is PBW the bottom for a bit, rinse, and fill with star san mix. Then empty with CO2 and close transfer from fermentor.
 
Yup, I got tired of old kegs when I built the new brewery a couple years ago so they’re all new. Kegged it from the fermentor, dropped in the wood spirals in a stainless spider and blasted 30 psi. The 30 psi kept it sealed, I checked it about 3 weeks in and then gave it more.
 
[...]
Could some kind of residue/oil on the wood spirals prevent a liquid from absorbing CO2? I may also move the porter back to my aging fridge on a different regulator and see what happens.

I can't dismiss the possibility. I work with ones and zeros :D

At this point I would do something dramatic and effective - and if it works, it may answer the "oil cap" question:

Using "chart pressure", set a gas drop on the keg, stand it up, and rock that puppy back and forth about 10-12" at the top and at a comfortable rhythm until you don't hear any gas leaving the regulator/entering the keg (the former may be easier to hear). The first round could take 10 minutes, so have a poured beer within reach ;)

Then let the keg sit on gas for an hour, and then repeat the rocking until, again, the gas flow stops or is majorly diminished. It should take much less time than the first round, then repeat a couple more times and you should definitely have a carbonated keg of porter. It may not be perfect yet, but it'll be in the ball park.

If that somehow doesn't work then we really have a mystery! o_O

Cheers!
 
Gas/Liquid is correct, I mark the kegs with painters tape.
I mostly meant if you happened to have the drop tubes INSIDE the keg hooked to the wrong post.

Day_trippers suggestions will carb the beer if there is oil residue somehow affecting surface area, if the tubes are wrong, if you have an o ring leak (at least temporary). Great suggestion.

While you are shaking you should be able to hear the gas going into the keg. Stop shaking and the gas stops, start again and you hear the gas. You'll be able to hear if you have the tubes somehow backwards. I carbed the first half dozen or so beers this way, noise is very distinctive . When you keep shaking and no gas is going into the beer it is at equalibrium
 
Great idea. Forgot about the force method, and I have never done it. So if I do this at 12 psi serving pressure there’s no risk of over carbonating?
 
If 12 psi is what the chart says you need given the actual beer temperature to hit your desired volumes of CO2, then yes, it can't over-carbonate...

Cheers!
 
Update. Went with day_trippr’s method and gave it four rounds of rocking over a couple days and another week hooked at serving pressure. The first round at 10 minutes I could hear CO2 faintly flowing. Even used a different regulator. No dice.

Other considerations I thought of. What if I didn’t rinse all the PBW from the boil kettle? Unlikely since I have a commercial restaurant sprayer. Glycol leak from fermentation? The lager in the picture is the beer that followed the porter in the fermenter.

15DB97C6-0708-4A9C-BF81-2F41A928331D.jpeg
 
Well that's a boggler right there.

Do you have a carbonation cap that fits a soda bottle? If so, even if only as a science experiment, try filling a bottle halfway, put it on double the chart pressure, shake the bejeesus out of it for awhile, let it sit cold 'til it settles, and see if there's any notion of carbonation in that beer...

Cheers!
 
Is it "actually' flat or just has no head? If you put some in a a water bottle and shake it does it act like it's carbonated?
 
I was wondering the same, but in that picture at full zoom the stout looks as still as a cup of black coffee.
Still, there is a difference between head and carbonation, and images can be misleading, so it's a good question...

Cheers!
 
this might be stupid, but...the stout isn't on "beer gas" is it?

edit: and you say it's a 3 tap kegerator, but i only see 2? you didn't install a remote nitro tap or something for the stout?
 
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I don’t have a carbonation cap but will get one from the LHBS. It’s dead flat, my mom called it a fine wine last weekend! I’ll find a water bottle and shake some to confirm.

I’m thinking one last dart throw is to intentionally overcarb at like 35 psi and then walk it down over a week (if it carbs).
 
Try the carb cap thing first if possible, at the minimum it'll save you from wasting much more CO2 on what may be a lost cause...
 
No, CO2 to a 3 way distributor/3 tap kegerator. 2 beers in the kegerator carbonated perfectly and this one has been a PITA (R.I.P. Michter’s Bourbon).


damn i see the reflection of the third set higher in the pic now....if you did the shake method and heard co2 flowing....where is it going?
 
Does the Porter have bubbles/show carbonation when you pour? As @day_trippr said, carbonation and head retention are two different animals. What's the ABV of the Porter? If it starts going North of 10% and you don't have any Dextrin in your grist, you may have problems with your head retention. (amongst other things that can effect head retention)
 
what's the ph of the beer, out of curiosity?

5.4 range using Brunwater. My water isn’t crazy hard. I’ve since switched to RO filter. Made this beer probably 10 times before with no issues, only thing different this time is the LHBS oak staves instead of oak spirals or cubes.
 
Does the Porter have bubbles/show carbonation when you pour? As @day_trippr said, carbonation and head retention are two different animals. What's the ABV of the Porter? If it starts going North of 10% and you don't have any Dextrin in your grist, you may have problems with your head retention. (amongst other things that can effect head retention)

It’s around 7% plus 16 ounces of bourbon. It would be drinkable with a head retention issue but this one is just stubborn flat.

Is it worth it to maybe repitch some yeast/priming solution and bottle some for experiment sake?
 
Well hell....you've made the recipe 10 times, no issues.

I can see the possibility of the Oak Staves being too green and having some resin in them to kill head retention, but not to carbonate at all....it has to be a pressure issue.

Honest to goodness, if you have any friends with a SodaStream, pour a sample off and try to force carb it. If you have a carb cap, pour some in a 2 liter bottle and carb it up with your set-up.
 
My world-famous, never-fail force carbing regimen:

1. Rack cold crashed beer to sanitized/purged keg.
2. Connect gas line at serving pressure and chill for 24 hours.
3. Turn regulator up to 12psi for 15 minutes, shaking gently.
4. Turn regulator up to 20 psi for 7 minutes and shake it like a polaroid picture. Borrow sugar from yo neighbor.
5. Increase pressure to 32 psi and rock steady, steady rockin' for 45 seconds. Later on, claim it was 90 seconds.
6. increase pressure to 35 psi, rock once every 2/3 second for 3-1/3 seconds.
7. Disconnect gas line, gently pull relief valve upward at 78 degrees from the horizontal to vent pressure. Apply band-aid to index finger.
8. Reconnect gas line, set regulator to serving pressure.
9. Sit on both hands and wait two full, agonizing weeks.
10. Enjoy a perfectly carbonated beer, every damned time.
 
My world-famous, never-fail force carbing regimen:

1. Rack cold crashed beer to sanitized/purged keg.
2. Connect gas line at serving pressure and chill for 24 hours.
3. Turn regulator up to 12psi for 15 minutes, shaking gently.
4. Turn regulator up to 20 psi for 7 minutes and shake it like a polaroid picture. Borrow sugar from yo neighbor.
5. Increase pressure to 32 psi and rock steady, steady rockin' for 45 seconds. Later on, claim it was 90 seconds.
6. increase pressure to 35 psi, rock once every 2/3 second for 3-1/3 seconds.
7. Disconnect gas line, gently pull relief valve upward at 78 degrees from the horizontal to vent pressure. Apply band-aid to index finger.
8. Reconnect gas line, set regulator to serving pressure.
9. Sit on both hands and wait two full, agonizing weeks.
10. Enjoy a perfectly carbonated beer, every damned time.


LOL, and here i was resisting the urge to say put the co2 tank on a scale. hook the keg up to it, and shake it to see how much co2 it's taking....
 
My world-famous, never-fail force carbing regimen:

1. Rack cold crashed beer to sanitized/purged keg.
2. Connect gas line at serving pressure and chill for 24 hours.
3. Turn regulator up to 12psi for 15 minutes, shaking gently.
4. Turn regulator up to 20 psi for 7 minutes and shake it like a polaroid picture. Borrow sugar from yo neighbor.
5. Increase pressure to 32 psi and rock steady, steady rockin' for 45 seconds. Later on, claim it was 90 seconds.
6. increase pressure to 35 psi, rock once every 2/3 second for 3-1/3 seconds.
7. Disconnect gas line, gently pull relief valve upward at 78 degrees from the horizontal to vent pressure. Apply band-aid to index finger.
8. Reconnect gas line, set regulator to serving pressure.
9. Sit on both hands and wait two full, agonizing weeks.
10. Enjoy a perfectly carbonated beer, every damned time.

hahahahah, I will most likely tackle this in perfect order. This beer NEEDS to go up against your “never-fail” method!
 
Could some kind of residue/oil on the wood spirals prevent a liquid from absorbing CO2?
No, but it could definitely prevent a foam head from forming, which could give the impression that the beer is flat when it actually isn't.
 
When I have a beer that appears flat in the glass I will sprinkle a few grains of salt in for a nucleation point. One time a beer was truly flat and the other it started to foam up and I could see 8t was carbed and just no head retention.
 
Well boys, it looks I might be winning this battle. Poured off half a glass to do the shake test and noticed a clear tuft of head foam. Gave it a shake and it’s clearly on the way now. I’ll pour one to night and see how it is.

A54BF720-E324-4250-83CF-77B6859AED91.jpeg
 
Well boys, it looks I might be winning this battle. Poured off half a glass to do the shake test and noticed a clear tuft of head foam. Gave it a shake and it’s clearly on the way now. I’ll pour one to night and see how it is.

View attachment 716334


opening it did it have pressure? or was it just protein foam?
 
It had the noticeable psst of CO2 when I cracked it open, at least that’s what I hope it is. And I could finally see tiny bubbles in it when I shook it.
 
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