Keezer Balancing, Line Length plus other foam causes.

[Scottiamit]

Hi guys I have a new keezer setup and I am getting too much head on my first pour and almost nothing on my second pour (back to back). I have used a few calculators for line length but seem to get different results in each and I am not 100% sure that is the issue if my second pour has little head? The top of my keg is actually slightly higher than my taps (about 50mm) and I am using 2 metres of beer line (approx 5mm inner) coiled up and my co2 is sitting at 10PSI atm. The keg has had plenty of time to settle as it has been in there about 3 weeks. Below is a photo of 2 pours done one after the other showing the issue. Any ideas on how to resolve? Thanks.

 

[jmcquesten]

What is the temperature? The pressure is 10 psi? Is the beer fully carbonated to your liking?

If the beer is carbonated and the lines are the right length (mikesoltys.com), it could be recipe/process related.

The little extra foam on first pour of the night is normal for me. I think that's an issue of clearing the line of what's sitting in it, and also cooling the faucet. Once the faucet is cool and the beer in the line is cleared, that's when I judge the pour.

 

[Shawn0522]

Hi guys I have a new keezer setup and I am getting too much head on my first pour and almost nothing on my second pour (back to back). I have used a few calculators for line length but seem to get different results in each and I am not 100% sure that is the issue if my second pour has little head? The top of my keg is actually slightly higher than my taps (about 50mm) and I am using 2 metres of beer line (approx 5mm inner) coiled up and my co2 is sitting at 10PSI atm. The keg has had plenty of time to settle as it has been in there about 3 weeks. Below is a photo of 2 pours done one after the other showing the issue. Any ideas on how to resolve? Thanks.

Are you lines staying filled with beer when they sit for awhile? If the lines are getting air in them as they sit i belive this can cause the first beer to pour with more foam.

 

[day_trippr]

To start, the lines are too short by quite a bit.

Beyond that, if you do not have an "air stirring fan" inside your keezer, add one.
It'll help keep the beer lines at the top of the keezer from getting warm due to temperature stratification (which most assuredly does happen in chest freezers)...

Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

Foam on the first pour, but not subsequent pours is often due to heat up of the beer lines when sitting. Warm beer foams more than cold beer. Do you have a fan in your keezer to make sure the air temperature is uniform throughout? 2 m is also a little on the short side for 10 psi, and could be contributing to your foaming problem. You would do better with 3 m. For sizing beer lines, check out this calculator.

Brew on

 

[Scottiamit]

What is the temperature? The pressure is 10 psi? Is the beer fully carbonated to your liking?

If the beer is carbonated and the lines are the right length (mikesoltys.com), it could be recipe/process related.

The little extra foam on first pour of the night is normal for me. I think that's an issue of clearing the line of what's sitting in it, and also cooling the faucet. Once the faucet is cool and the beer in the line is cleared, that's when I judge the pour.

Keezer is set to 4 degrees celsius. Yes I am pretty happy with the carbonation for an IPA, could go a little higher for a larger but I am mainly drinking ales atm.

that site gives me about 230cm beer line and I have 200cm, I do have a spare 300cm length I could swap it out for and test.

I did wonder if the first pour has co2 sitting in the coiled up beer line sitting in each coil which causes pockets of air and hence foam. Is there a better way to configure the excess beer line? Maybe it should flow down at the end to the tap?

 

[Scottiamit]

Are you lines staying filled with beer when they sit for awhile? If the lines are getting air in them as they sit i belive this can cause the first beer to pour with more foam.

Yes they still have beer in them but I did wonder if it was pockets of co2 in the coiled up line? How would I get around this issue? The lines are coiled vertically, maybe I should do this horizontally instead?

 

[Scottiamit]

To start, the lines are too short by quite a bit.

Beyond that, if you do not have an "air stirring fan" inside your keezer, add one.
It'll help keep the beer lines at the top of the keezer from getting warm due to temperature stratification (which most assuredly does happen in chest freezers)...

Cheers!

OK thanks for that, I will swap out the 2m line for 3m when the keg is empty (probably by this weekend) and I will look to add a fan too. Is coiling up the beer line the best method?

The keg the beer is coming off atm is higher than my other keg (see pic below before beer line added) so I may look to put a 3.5m or 4m length line on the higher keg based on the results that calc gives me. Any issues from having lines of this length?

Cheers for the reply.

 

[Scottiamit]

Foam on the first pour, but not subsequent pours is often due to heat up of the beer lines when sitting. Warm beer foams more than cold beer. Do you have a fan in your keezer to make sure the air temperature is uniform throughout? 2 m is also a little on the short side for 10 psi, and could be contributing to your foaming problem. You would do better with 3 m. For sizing beer lines, check out this calculator.

Brew on

Cheers I will look to increase the beer line length to 3m and add a fan.

 

[sudsybrewer]

Hey, I've had a similar problem, on my keezer at home and the tap room I work at. I think that part of the problem is that for the first pour, there's beer in the tap (outside of the keezer) that is warmer, and the faucet itself is warm too. To add to the problem, once there's a little foam at the beginning of the pour, I always seem to build up much more. But if I pour off the first little bit (which I just drink later...) I can fill no problem. It's always easier to add head at the end. Just crack the tap open a tiny bit and you'll get plenty.

I just don't think there's any good way to deal with the fact that the tap (and beer inside) will be warm for the first part of the first pour....

I would love to hear other people's thoughts on this though.

 

[day_trippr]

OK thanks for that, I will swap out the 2m line for 3m when the keg is empty (probably by this weekend) and I will look to add a fan too. Is coiling up the beer line the best method?

The keg the beer is coming off atm is higher than my other keg (see pic below before beer line added) so I may look to put a 3.5m or 4m length line on the higher keg based on the results that calc gives me. Any issues from having lines of this length?

Make both lines the same, longer length, at least to start.
Assume Mike's calculator is giving the shortest workable length.
Adding an extra foot or more of line beyond that won't change the flow rate that much, and once you've gotten your system dialed in you can always lop a foot off either line if you feel the need.

This pic is a bit busy with all the flow meters and wiring but it shows the gist: with conventional tubing you can coil your lines up with a couple of cable ties and nestle the coils atop the kegs.


I'm not certain it changes anything wrt foaming but at least it's relatively neat and keeps lines from freezing due to contact with the keezer walls. A fan is much more significant. I have a 120mm fan sitting on the hump...

Cheers!

 

[Scottiamit]

Make both lines the same, longer length, at least to start.
Assume Mike's calculator is giving the shortest workable length.
Adding an extra foot or more of line beyond that won't change the flow rate that much, and once you've gotten your system dialed in you can always lop a foot off either line if you feel the need.

This pic is a bit busy with all the flow meters and wiring but it shows the gist: with conventional tubing you can coil your lines up with a couple of cable ties and nestle the coils atop the kegs.
View attachment 358637

I'm not certain it changes anything wrt foaming but at least it's relatively neat and keeps lines from freezing due to contact with the keezer walls. A fan is much more significant. I have a 120mm fan sitting on the hump...

Cheers!

Cheers I will try the 3m length I have at home already and see the difference it makes but I can grab 10m of 5mm (internal) tubing for cheap from local DIY which may be better as I just checked and the internal diameter my current line actually has is 5.5mm so that will make a difference too. now that I think about it my pour is probably a little quick too which would lead me to think the line length and diameter is an issue that needs sorting.

I work in IT so bound to have a spare fan or two I can use.

cheers.

 

[doug293cz]

Cheers I will try the 3m length I have at home already and see the difference it makes but I can grab 10m of 5mm (internal) tubing for cheap from local DIY which may be better as I just checked and the internal diameter my current line actually has is 5.5mm so that will make a difference too. now that I think about it my pour is probably a little quick too which would lead me to think the line length and diameter is an issue that needs sorting.

I work in IT so bound to have a spare fan or two I can use.

cheers.

Yes, the line diameter is a little larger than typical 3/16" (4.76 mm) ID line. This will require somewhat longer lines, due to less flow resistance. My earlier recommendation of 3m was based on a diameter of 4.76 mm.

Brew on

 

[jmcquesten]

I would also recommend 3/16 id line. That calculator defaults to 3/16 line size, but you can change that and it will give you the length needed for the line size that you input. As far as as managing the long lines, coiling them up on top of the keg is probably the easiest. A couple zip ties helps keep them coiled. My faucets are usually cool to the touch, but the first pour always still has more foam.

The only drawbacks with the really long lines is a little slower pour, and sometimes a little less foam if running a lower pressure. Size all lines to the highest carbonation level you will ever run. When running a less carbonated beer (stout, porter, etc.) the pressure will be lower which will slow down the pour.