Just need to vent

[I_B_Mongo]

So, I entered a local homebrew contest last week. Its a decent size at 479 entries. I entered 4 beers. 3 I was just looking for some feedback, one I thought had a chance to place.

Anyway, the one I though had a shot was a RIS I brewed almost a year ago. I don't have my score sheets yet, but I was able to get my score...I got a 43...and I didn't even place. I haven't entered a lot of contests, but I do know a 43 in the "excellent" category and just outside of "outstanding". I'm glad to get such a good score(the highest I've ever got), but bummed I still don't have a medal/ribbon to show for my efforts.

Thats it. Just had to get it off my chest. Thanks for listening to my rant.

 

[TopherM]

Yeah, that sucks. Our first major homebrew competition of the year here in FL is being judged as we speak with results coming the first week in March. I entered a pumpkin porter into the veggie category, and have no idea what to expect, since it is such a random category.

You should save three of those 43 beers and enter it again in the next competition!

 

[DangerRoss]

Don't get discouraged, use this as motivation on perfecting your recipe and fermentation. I recently just got back the results from the first competition I entered. I entered what I thought was my best beers into the wrong category. I thought it was a recipe for a porter but the judges thought it was a brown ale and my score showed it. The judges did comment that they would have scored it around 40 if it was entered into the right category. Now it gives me a good excuse to brew more!

 

[marmonduke]

Congrats on the 43! Very respectable score regardless.

 

[I_B_Mongo]

You should save three of those 43 beers and enter it again in the next competition!

Those were my last 2 bottles.

Planning on brewing it again soon.

 

[elvestinkle]

I was happy with a 32 for my saison. I was 2 points away from 3rd in the contest I entered--and then when I tried it again, a couple three months later, I wished I could enter it right on the spot. I salute your 43, sir!

 

[Skelator]

Dont worry. a 43 is plenty of validation.

Ribbons? We dont need to stinkin' ribbons!

 

[I_B_Mongo]

Dont worry. a 43 is plenty of validation.

Ribbons? We dont need to stinkin' ribbons!

Oh, I'm still going to hang the score sheet up in the basement. And I don't brew for accolades, other than "damn, this is a tasty beer".

But it still would have been nice.

 

[wildwest450]

but bummed i still don't have a medal/ribbon to show for my efforts.

and i don't brew for accolades,

 

[I_B_Mongo]

Nicely played.

But honestly, I never start a brew day by thinking "hmm...sure hope this will get me a medal". When I develop a new recipe, I brew it over and over until it tastes how I like it. I don't care if the BJCP thinks its too hoppy/malty/etc. Ultimately, I'm the one that's going to be drinking the bulk of it-so it should taste how I like it. If I make a beer that I think is really good and my beer geek friends really like, I may enter it into a contest to see how it does. But the few times I've entered contest is just to get feedback.

 

[SlimeyBooger]

I entered this competition also, for pretty much the same reasons you did. I started back in Oct of 2011, so this was my first competition and just wanted feedback on my beer. I entered a brown ale into 10c and 23a, which got a 34 and 28 respectively, and I entered a porter that got a 41. No medals for me either. Oh well, guess it was tough competition. Looking forward to getting the score sheets in the mail.

 

[DannPM]

Mini BOS is strange process, a 38 could have beat your 43 for any number of random factors, that's just how mini BOS is. A 43 averaged score sheet is the ribbon itself man!

 

[I_B_Mongo]

DannPM, how does a mini BOS work? Never heard of it.

 

[Homercidal]

I always brew with the hope of having a beer good enough to score that high. I have not been happy with my beer recently, but all I can do is tweak this and that until my new rig is put together.

I blame my ever changing tastes. It happens to judges too and anyway, a 43 is a GREAT score!

Wouldn't it be great to be able to see a graph of exactly where every beer placed in the scoring??

 

[DannPM]

DannPM, how does a mini BOS work? Never heard of it.

Standard in modern BJCP comps is queued judging, there are two judges that first evaluate your beer. These are the individuals that fill out your score sheets and assign an average between the two scores. The average is above a say 36-38 region you'll usually advance it to the mini BOS (this is where category medals are awarded). There are many pairs of judges advancing beers from their own flight lineups in the same category.

After all the individual judging is complete, the mini BOS starts. usually 2 but sometimes 3 judges get the remaining portion of your first bottle that advanced and all the other advancers. They do not see score sheets. They judge them individually again, taking out one by one until the are down to three where they discuss where each should be placed. This decides category rank 1, 2, 3. The 1st place winner of each category's mini BOS goes on to BOS with the remaining whole bottle.

The randomness comes in here, in the mini BOS. There are half bottles, they could have lost a lot or a little carbonation, they could not due as well exposed to air after corking for the 20-30 minutes until BOS starts, etc. This is how a 38 could theoretically beat a 43. Does it happen? I'm sure. I'll never know though as watching the BOS I do not know the individual scores.

Was it the KCBM competition you entered? I actually did some judging at that event.

 

[I_B_Mongo]

Yeah, it was the KCBM. I had the RIS (43), a northern english brown (31), same RIS but aged on cherries (29...probably not enough cherry, but I don't like it too strong), and a barrel aged Wee Heavy (25...still a bit boozy, may try again in 6-12 months).

 

[turkeyjerky214]

While we don't brew to win ribbons, it's always a nice decoration to hang up and show off to your non-brewing friends. In a recent competition, I had an IPA that scored 42 and didn't place. In another category, I had an amber ale that got a 36 and got a silver.

Try not to put too much stock in competitions like this. A lot of times you have very inexperienced judges so your scores can vary greatly from comp to comp.

 

[akimbo78]

Standard in modern BJCP comps is queued judging, there are two judges that first evaluate your beer. These are the individuals that fill out your score sheets and assign an average between the two scores. The average is above a say 36-38 region you'll usually advance it to the mini BOS (this is where category medals are awarded). There are many pairs of judges advancing beers from their own flight lineups in the same category.

After all the individual judging is complete, the mini BOS starts. usually 2 but sometimes 3 judges get the remaining portion of your first bottle that advanced and all the other advancers. They do not see score sheets. They judge them individually again, taking out one by one until the are down to three where they discuss where each should be placed. This decides category rank 1, 2, 3. The 1st place winner of each category's mini BOS goes on to BOS with the remaining whole bottle.

The randomness comes in here, in the mini BOS. There are half bottles, they could have lost a lot or a little carbonation, they could not due as well exposed to air after corking for the 20-30 minutes until BOS starts, etc. This is how a 38 could theoretically beat a 43. Does it happen? I'm sure. I'll never know though as watching the BOS I do not know the individual scores.

Was it the KCBM competition you entered? I actually did some judging at that event.

talked to a judge and this is 100% accurate as to what really happens. you should be happy with your score.

 

[I_B_Mongo]

Got my score sheets today. It was a mini-BOS. One judge (non BJCP)gave me a 39 citing several off flavors, the other one (BJCP National) gave me a 44. The feedback on the other beers was great, and it looks like I only need to make a few minor tweaks to my processes to help improve my beers.

I've already got the ingredients in the BMW recipe builder to make this batch again. Too bad it'll be a while until I see how I did the 2nd time around. Also, gonna laminate the 44 score sheet to hang in the brewery...I figure that's an award in itself.:rockin:

 

[dover97]

The BJCP competitions I've been involved with are not judged as DannPM explains. Three bottles are submitted and the judges ranking 1-3 (mini BOS) are judging a fresh bottle.

Much of the variation can come from the time between the first judging and the other judgings and from the different judges.

 

[DannPM]

Dover, optimally three bottles should be used but the majority of competitions I've entered only use two.

 

[Spartan1979]

So, would you have felt better with a 27 and no ribbon?

 

[I_B_Mongo]

So, would you have felt better with a 27 and no ribbon?

Good point. A 43 and no ribbon is better than a 27 and no ribbon. In my book...even better than a 27 and a ribbon.

But here's a little kicker that kinda got to me...there were 30 entries in the stout category-and 3 awards given. In some categories there were 7 entries and 4 awards given. 1st-3rd and an Honorable Mention. Over half the entries got rewarded.

To be fair, I've never judged or steward-ed a contest, so I have no idea what goes into it. I'm sure the judges had plenty of great beers to sort through.

 

[Homercidal]

I think I can safely say that the sheer number of entries in homebrewing competitions has grown enormously the pas few years and the quality of those brews is very likely going to be much better than they were a few years ago as well.

Homebrewing in general has grown a TON in the past several years and I've witnessed this growth in every competition I've seen.

The simple fact is that there were probably 10 very decent stouts in that comp. and a good number of them were probably Top Notch. I bet it was very difficult for the judges to choose the top 3.

 

[turkeyjerky214]

The last competition I stewarded, there were waaaay too many entries in the IPA and American Ale categories. Each pair of judges had like 13. After a few hours, it gets harder and harder to concentrate and score something accurately.