Joe's Ancient Orange Mead
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JTOVERMOHLE
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Hello all.....opened up my 3 month old JAOM to transfer it off the yeast cake for the 4th time....smells bready?? i assume it is from the yeast, and my questions is...when all the yeast has settled and I am able to let it sit, will the bready smell clear out? Haven't sampled it yet, maybe it is just the smell, but it is a little off putting....stuck to the OG recipe using bread yeast. Any insight? Thanks
Which part of "no racking" didn't you get when you read the instructions?
JTOVERMOHLE
Well-Known Member
Which part of "no racking" didn't you get when you read the instructions?
Touche' ---- i went against that when i started making other mead recipes and they all say to re-rack when there is 1/4 to 1/2 inch of trub in the bottom....i guess my old mind slipped me when i saw all the trub in the bottom of my JAOM. But besides my re-racking, with the bready-ness go away ever??
This pops up again and again unfortunately... Never ever rack of the yeast unless you are bulk aging the mead!
By racking of you introduce oxygen and you remove viable yeast and therefore put more stress onto the remaining yeast.
I know a lot of recipes ask for it but this is a relict from times when dry yeast was half dead when used and autolysis kicked in almost immediately. This is not the case anymore.
Don't rack your mead unless bulk aging!
JTOVERMOHLE
Well-Known Member
Noted. Thanks for the education. I have a cranberry mead that i started before xmas and plan on letting it age for a year. Re-racked it once since then. It is clear and smells delicious and still has yeast/trub in the bottom. I believe i used a champagne yeast for that one. Would it be wise to bottle that one and let it age, or just let it be....and if the latter, how soon before i plan on consuming should i move it to the bottles??
Live and learn i guess. Cheers
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If it is completely clear and done fermenting, it can be bottled and aged in the bottle. I see no positive effect in bulk aging it in this case but you will skip at least one racking, so imo just bottle it if its done and clear.
JTOVERMOHLE
Well-Known Member
Perfect. I have a beer ready to be bottled this week, I'll make a day out of it. Beneficial to just leave my JAOM in the gallon jug and bulk age for another few months or have i already ruined it and should start on a new batch?
I would just wait till it's perfectly clear and then bottle it.
JTOVERMOHLE
Well-Known Member
Appreciate your assistance tonight. Thank you
Early morning for me! You're welcome!
JTOVERMOHLE
Well-Known Member
Ahhh yes, i see you are across the pond...
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Anyone ever added a vanilla bean to this to make a creamcicle mead?
Quick question: I've made JAOM many times, and always used the same equipment: a 5L carboy and 1.5kg of honey, 1 orange, a handful of raisins, 1 cinnamon stick and 1 clove. I want to make a larger batch now (15L) so my question is shall I scale everything up in a linear fashion? Main concern is the clove, I've had batches where the clove is very pronounced, almost burning, even when using one. I'm considering using 2 cloves and 2 cinnamon sticks in 15L, and 2 oranges as some batches came out with pithy bitterness that I wasn't too happy about.
These issues with my batches may be explained by the below:
I figured just today that the actual recipe will likely end up sweeter than what I had, given the difference between US and UK "gallons", so a UK gallon (4.54L) would have less sugar to work with than a US one (3.78L), and the 5L that I've been using had even less still. I never had a hygrometer until now.
However always ended up with a slightly sweet mead that I've been happy with. I figured different people mean different things when they say "sweet". I like sweet drinks so what I'd consider "semi-sweet" is likely considered sweet by those preferring their drinks dry so I didn't give it more thought!
Comparatively, I've been using the same amount of honey when making Bochet, and it always ended up much sweeter than the JAOM, again putting all my biochemistry training aside, I thought the caramelised honey is just less fermentable, I've always made Bochet by adding a sliced pear in the primary, don't know if this contributes much in terms of nutrients but again, I ended up with a drink I was always very happy about so didn't give it further thought. @bernardsmith any thoughts?
These issues with my batches may be explained by the below:
I figured just today that the actual recipe will likely end up sweeter than what I had, given the difference between US and UK "gallons", so a UK gallon (4.54L) would have less sugar to work with than a US one (3.78L), and the 5L that I've been using had even less still. I never had a hygrometer until now.
However always ended up with a slightly sweet mead that I've been happy with. I figured different people mean different things when they say "sweet". I like sweet drinks so what I'd consider "semi-sweet" is likely considered sweet by those preferring their drinks dry so I didn't give it more thought!
Comparatively, I've been using the same amount of honey when making Bochet, and it always ended up much sweeter than the JAOM, again putting all my biochemistry training aside, I thought the caramelised honey is just less fermentable, I've always made Bochet by adding a sliced pear in the primary, don't know if this contributes much in terms of nutrients but again, I ended up with a drink I was always very happy about so didn't give it further thought. @bernardsmith any thoughts?
bernardsmith
Well-Known Member
Always a contrarian but the fact is that however "popular" a JAOM might be it is. really, a novelty mead. It's a novelty mead because how ever often you make it you can not use your experience with JAOM to improve your traditional meads, your melomels or your metheglins etc. It's a mead that if you follow the recipe it makes itself, and it makes itself despite the fact that the processes involved are quite counter-intuitive (unless you really understand mead making - and the creator of JAOM did). That said, if you choose not to follow the recipe, it ain't a JAOM. And that is OK.
Me? I don't make novelty meads so I would argue that the use of orange zest rather than peel with pith is a no-brainer. Pith is bitter and zest contains all the flavor-rich volatile oils you want from the orange. With JAOM, since no hydrometer is being used and no degassing is involved the inability of the remaining CO2 to keep the pieces of orange in suspension tells you that you can bottle. But if the amount of honey used in the recipe is meant to finish this mead very sweet you may want some bittering to counter what might be a cloyingly sweet wine. If you wanted to avoid using the pith you might - might - want to consider using less honey for fermenting, and after some aging you might want to stabilize and then back sweeten to taste without any need for additional bitterness.
Cloves? For me even a single clove tends to dominate anything. Cloves are wonderful in pomanders... but in a mead or wine? I don't know. I guess if you like them, then no problem. If you don't, there is no law that says that you must use them.
Bottom line - and this is simply my thought: if you want to make an orange flavored mead, and you have gotten your toes wet with JAOM, why not get some orange blossom honey (about 2.5 lbs to make each gallon) and zest some oranges - say a half dozen per gallon. Add some nutrients - Fermaid O or K (or even some boiled bread yeast if you cannot get hold of lab made nutrients). And I would pitch some wine yeast - 71B or D47. You might even use some beer yeast, perhaps US 05. No need for raisins, BUT if you want some additional grape like flavor you might use grape juice in place of some or all the water (BUT be sure that there is no sorbate preservative added to the grape juice. That completely inhibits fermentation).
When the gravity falls to around 1.010 - 1.005 I would rack (siphon) to a carboy with airlock and bung. Taste the mead and if you want more orange flavor I would zest some more oranges and add the zest to the mead so that now you are using alcohol to extract the flavors. You might taste how this is going every week and decide when to rack the mead off this zest (could be two weeks) and then let the mead age two or three months and when clear, bottle.
Me? I don't make novelty meads so I would argue that the use of orange zest rather than peel with pith is a no-brainer. Pith is bitter and zest contains all the flavor-rich volatile oils you want from the orange. With JAOM, since no hydrometer is being used and no degassing is involved the inability of the remaining CO2 to keep the pieces of orange in suspension tells you that you can bottle. But if the amount of honey used in the recipe is meant to finish this mead very sweet you may want some bittering to counter what might be a cloyingly sweet wine. If you wanted to avoid using the pith you might - might - want to consider using less honey for fermenting, and after some aging you might want to stabilize and then back sweeten to taste without any need for additional bitterness.
Cloves? For me even a single clove tends to dominate anything. Cloves are wonderful in pomanders... but in a mead or wine? I don't know. I guess if you like them, then no problem. If you don't, there is no law that says that you must use them.
Bottom line - and this is simply my thought: if you want to make an orange flavored mead, and you have gotten your toes wet with JAOM, why not get some orange blossom honey (about 2.5 lbs to make each gallon) and zest some oranges - say a half dozen per gallon. Add some nutrients - Fermaid O or K (or even some boiled bread yeast if you cannot get hold of lab made nutrients). And I would pitch some wine yeast - 71B or D47. You might even use some beer yeast, perhaps US 05. No need for raisins, BUT if you want some additional grape like flavor you might use grape juice in place of some or all the water (BUT be sure that there is no sorbate preservative added to the grape juice. That completely inhibits fermentation).
When the gravity falls to around 1.010 - 1.005 I would rack (siphon) to a carboy with airlock and bung. Taste the mead and if you want more orange flavor I would zest some more oranges and add the zest to the mead so that now you are using alcohol to extract the flavors. You might taste how this is going every week and decide when to rack the mead off this zest (could be two weeks) and then let the mead age two or three months and when clear, bottle.
Yes, the bitterness of the pith balances the sweetness. The JAOM ends up being a desert mead, typically around 1.020 FG. Anything less than 1.010 is too bitter to drink. It also changes drastically over time. Out of the fermentor it's all orange and clove. After 2 months the clove starts to fade and the mead is drinkable. At 8 months the flavors meld and the mead has a wonderful orange perfume. You should try one.
I don't know if anyone has, but, I have a JAOM bulk aging right now that is getting a vanilla bean & when my blood orange JAOM hybrid gets racked & split up into smaller batches, one of those will be getting a bean as well.
bernardsmith
Well-Known Member
I dunno, I make an orange t'ej with zest and gesho (and orange blossom honey) that is very drinkable in a couple of months. Not sure that I need to make a JAOM to enjoy an orange flavored honey wine.
Yeah but like you said it's a novelty mead. Its appeal is that you mix everything together and set it aside for 2-3 months, no muss no fuss. This year I've been under life stress (like many in the pandemic) and haven't had the time or ambition to persue my normal fermenting passion. So a 1-1/2 gallon wide mouth fermentor, a few pounds of local wildflower and a packet of Fleichmann's on the dining table and wa-la I have mead. Can't be beat for simplicity and (IMO) it's actually quite good.I dunno, I make an orange t'ej with zest and gesho (and orange blossom honey) that is very drinkable in a couple of months. Not sure that I need to make a JAOM to enjoy an orange flavored honey wine.
@bernardsmith , would you be willing to share your Tej' recipe & process, please?I dunno, I make an orange t'ej with zest and gesho (and orange blossom honey) that is very drinkable in a couple of months. Not sure that I need to make a JAOM to enjoy an orange flavored honey wine.
(Or is it in the recipe board already? )
I have made @loveofrose's perfect Tej' BOMM & I love it, but, I want to try different versions of it. One with orange zest sounds VERY appealing to me. Thank you, in advance, if you do share it.
bernardsmith
Well-Known Member
Sure. Always happy to share recipes. This one I found in an Ethiopian cook book. I apologize but I cannot recall the name of the author or the title of the book, though I think it may have been by Daniel Mesfin and the book was called Exotic Ethiopian Cooking . But the recipe was called Yebirtukan T'ej (orange t'ej).
Here is the published recipe: I tweaked this
1.5 C of gesho (can be twigs or leaves (enchet, or kitel respectively) and the recipe was for the leaves. I would use 2 oz of the enchet you could use perhaps 4 oz.
2 lbs of honey
to make 1 US gallon of mead.
Mix honey and water. Let stand 3 days in warm room (the assumption is that the indigenous yeast in the honey and /or gesho will do the work)
Take 6 C and boil this for 15 mins. Allow to cool
Add the gesho
Let stand 5 days .
Remove Gesho
Add zest of 7 oranges.
Let stand 15 -20 days
Remove zest
My approach was
1. To use orange blossom honey;
2. To pitch wine yeast (71B is one I like).
3. Not to boil the honey.
4. To use 4 oz of enchet (twigs) and allow the enchet to sit in the mead 2 weeks then rack off and then
5. To add orange zest for three weeks.
6. When fully fermented, to then stabilize and back sweeten with honey. (looking for enough sweetness to nicely balance the bitterness from the gesho and the citrus flavors from the oranges.
The thing about t'ej is that traditionally, it is always drunk "green" - It's never aged, and it tends to be sweet as the mead maker does not aim for a fully fermented mead not least using only indigenous yeast and bacteria that are in the honey and on the gesho.
Here is the published recipe: I tweaked this
1.5 C of gesho (can be twigs or leaves (enchet, or kitel respectively) and the recipe was for the leaves. I would use 2 oz of the enchet you could use perhaps 4 oz.
2 lbs of honey
to make 1 US gallon of mead.
Mix honey and water. Let stand 3 days in warm room (the assumption is that the indigenous yeast in the honey and /or gesho will do the work)
Take 6 C and boil this for 15 mins. Allow to cool
Add the gesho
Let stand 5 days .
Remove Gesho
Add zest of 7 oranges.
Let stand 15 -20 days
Remove zest
My approach was
1. To use orange blossom honey;
2. To pitch wine yeast (71B is one I like).
3. Not to boil the honey.
4. To use 4 oz of enchet (twigs) and allow the enchet to sit in the mead 2 weeks then rack off and then
5. To add orange zest for three weeks.
6. When fully fermented, to then stabilize and back sweeten with honey. (looking for enough sweetness to nicely balance the bitterness from the gesho and the citrus flavors from the oranges.
The thing about t'ej is that traditionally, it is always drunk "green" - It's never aged, and it tends to be sweet as the mead maker does not aim for a fully fermented mead not least using only indigenous yeast and bacteria that are in the honey and on the gesho.
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has anyone used voss or other Kveik yeasts as an experiment?
Sorry, I only read the first 5 pages and then the last 5, and I know it is not really a JOAM if you deviate from the original recipe, but as said probably 10,000 times in this thread alone experimentation is part of the brewing process for me. 
ArizonaGoalie
Well-Known Member
Made this back in January - 2 batches. One using the traditional Joe's way, bread yeast. The other, I used same formula, but added a pound of frozen blueberries and sweet mead yeast from White Labs.
Pictures forthcoming, but the results after 5 months of aging (transferred both to a secondary after 2 months):
Orange mead with bread yeast - good and getting better. I give it a solid C+.
Blueberry mead with sweet mead yeast - FANTASTIC....A++.
I'm making a 3 gallon batch of the blueberry/sweet mead yeast version this weekend so it will be prime time for the holidays. This time doing 4lbs of frozen blueberries.
Pictures forthcoming, but the results after 5 months of aging (transferred both to a secondary after 2 months):
Orange mead with bread yeast - good and getting better. I give it a solid C+.
Blueberry mead with sweet mead yeast - FANTASTIC....A++.
I'm making a 3 gallon batch of the blueberry/sweet mead yeast version this weekend so it will be prime time for the holidays. This time doing 4lbs of frozen blueberries.
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- 84
Made this back in January - 2 batches. One using the traditional Joe's way, bread yeast. The other, I used same formula, but added a pound of frozen blueberries and sweet mead yeast from White Labs.
Pictures forthcoming, but the results after 5 months of aging (transferred both to a secondary after 2 months):
Orange mead with bread yeast - good and getting better. I give it a solid C+.
Blueberry mead with sweet mead yeast - FANTASTIC....A++.
I'm making a 3 gallon batch of the blueberry/sweet mead yeast version this weekend so it will be prime time for the holidays. This time doing 4lbs of frozen blueberries.
This sounds delicious! I'm going to add blueberries the next time I do this along with sweet mead yeast!
ArizonaGoalie
Well-Known Member
My wife and son discovered the blueberry mead this weekend, and it's gone now. It's a real winner.
The sweat mead yeast from White Labs is da bomb diggity. Puts the bread yeast to shame. Here's a pic in a grolsch-style flip top 25oz bottle. So good.
The sweat mead yeast from White Labs is da bomb diggity. Puts the bread yeast to shame. Here's a pic in a grolsch-style flip top 25oz bottle. So good.
Hankhill11
Well-Known Member
Just checking in here. I haven't been on in a few years. My last batch of JOAM was made on 6/10/2018 and is very smooth and mellow at this point. We cracked a bottle when my Fiancée and I got a new house, and I'm going to have some tonight just because. So a note for everyone, it keeps for years!
I have a batch that I made this past Nov 2020, it has been doing it's thing for 9 Months and now it is time to get ready to bottle. I have some crown caps with a cork inner-liner that someone gave me and was thinking this might be the perfect time to use them, any thoughts from the community? Have any of you folks used them? They should be able to breathe a little?!? I have some Mead that I made from 2007 and 2015 and I just used crown caps but I do not think the flavor has matured very much, it basically taste the same as the day I bottled it.
I'd also like to spike the mead with either cherry juice or pear, to make it sparkle any suggestions on how much to add at bottling time?
I'd also like to spike the mead with either cherry juice or pear, to make it sparkle any suggestions on how much to add at bottling time?
