It's official starting my own brewing business!

[Cape Brewing]

I think it is awesome you guys are doing it and I know a lot of what you're going through We are meeting out HVAC guy tomorrow and giving him a hand hanging our ventilation hood and then we are finally DONE with all "construction" and just need to get final sign offs from all of the inspectors (building, plumbing, electrical, fire dept. and Board of Health).

I would still very strongly recommend spending a large chunk of time figuring out all of the inspections, certifications and permits you guys are going to need. It may sound like a no brainier but we had a very rude awakening once the inspectors and paperwork came into play.

The 32-tip jet burners we bought and were going to use? Nope. They aren't UL or any other industry certified so those were out. We had to go out and buy $1,600 worth of commercial stovetops.

The massive 4 inch box steel stand my partner had welded up for our stand? Nope. Somehow didn't meet code and he Ended up selling it online.

The bathroom? Doesn't matter if it is open to the public or not, we were required to make it handicap accessible. That means an ADA certified toilet to replace the old one. An ADA sink had to replace the old one. Oh, and the door frame that wouldn't fit a wheelchair? That a to be expanded. Don't forget the hand rails and the mixing valve on the sink faucets to limit water temp. Oh, and make sure the plumbing under the sink is wrapped properly so no one in a wheelchair can get burned. That was just the bathroom.

We needed proper ventilation... Including make-up air flow.

Gas leak sensors.... Which connect to auto-shut offs at the gas valves.

The TTB is gonna want to know layout and how exactly all Pre-tax and Post-tax items will be physically separated from each other and the public.

Board of Health... If you're going to have any kind of "tasting room", equipment sanitation, a separate and distinct hand washing sink is required (we literally had to hang a small hand washing sink, mounted on the wall six inches to the left of our large industrial basin sink)

Fire Dept definitely wanted to make sure our entire fire sprinkler system was up to snuff. We had some paint from a previous occupant on a sprinkler head in a CLOSET. Nope... Gotta replace that. Oh, and you need a licensed plumber/sprinkler system guy to pull a permit for that and then have the Fire Dept come and test the system on-site, while he's there, once he is done draining the entire system, changing the head, filling and then bleeding the entire system. That was a fun day. Over one sprinkler head in a closet! Fire extinguishers. Fire rated sheet rock anywhere near our rig.

Then comes the Occupancy Permit... Which is basically the town's final OK to open your doors. That is only issued once everyone under the sun (all the inspectors I just mentioned) sign off that they have inspected the facility and everything is up to code. WHICH they will likely make damn sure it is because if the place burns down and someone gets killed... There are massive lawsuits possible when they figure out the building inspector fudged a few things.

I am sure I am missing half the stuff and I'm also sure that your area isn't as ridiculous as ours to deal with but we went through all of that for a 1.5 bbl system (not sure what we were thinking) and it was a nightmare. We ended up spending about three times the up front costs we were expecting and four months of time getting through this stuff... And we're not done yet. Hood tomorrow and then we line up all of the inspectors for the Occupancy Permit sign off.

Again... Just some friendly advice... I wouldn't go too gung ho building the whole place out until you know exactly what has to be built, in which ways and by which licensed electrician/plumber/GC etc.

 

[Cape Brewing]

Holy SHT!!!! That was a long post!!!!

 

[Mountainlivin]

Best wishes!!!

 

[DPBISME]

I wish you were on the East Coast, VA/NC. I would see if you needed an assistant! I would work cheap and get to learn the process and ten maybe follow in your footsteps...

 

[akthor]

Cape Brewing I really appreciate all your help and advice, I do everybodys (except for people who say I can't do it ).

I know all the things you talk about will be a huge undertaking. Not quite as bad as how you had it since I know my towns and probably state regs aren't as bad as MA.

Honestly I have chosen to address those things after I have built a majority of things I need done. Doing this basically alone with my own money as I go (trust me I don't make a whole lot of money either thats why this will take a while) its really the only way I can move forward and not feel overwhelmed. Trying to look up laws and codes is frustrating they don't make it easy for people that's for sure.

We have plans for covering the walls and ceilings and for the tap room and fermentation room. We do think we have to move the door to the ferm room if we are understanding that code right lol.

Truly the only big thing left to tackle before I HAVE to start trying to get an understanding of the codes and laws and deal with my plans as they relate to them is build my walk in. The overeaching philosophy in this business plan is that if it fails in the end worse comes to worse I have a really awesome place to brew and drink beer, next to my brew rig the walk in is the 2nd big want and need thing for like always

I do have alternate plans for some things if they need changing. But once the walk in is done we will really have delve and get some answers before we move forward. I don't want to have to redo things.

So I'm brewing and learning the ins and outs of my new system and all grain brewing. Refining my recipes. I plan mid-October as when I can afford to start work on the walk in.

This weekend I am going to Vermont to a friends big blowout bash bringing my trashcan kegerator and three kegs of my beer so I hope to get some good feedback on them.

Anyone living near Barre VT pm me we would love to have you the more the merrier.

My BDay is Oct 11th and I will be having a bash the weekend following the 11th and anyone close to me or who will be in the area and wants to join in the fun, beer, smoked pork, giant beer pong, rock band and bon fire, shoot me a PM.

 

[Cape Brewing]

My only concern is you building a ton of stuff (and spending money on it like we did) only to find out it needs to be torn out and re-done. We did everything on our own dime as well and I just don't want to see you spend a lot of sweat and money for nothing.

Anyway... Good luck and wish you the best with it

 

[akthor]

Oh no I'm not. Everything up to and including the walk in are things I would have done even if I was just planning on living here. Painting the buildings, new utilty sink, moving the washer and dryer and building a wall to seperate them from everything else. All would have been done anyways. Only thing is the hole in the wall I put in for the ventilation fan. If due to laws and codes I gotta move the brew rig then thats the only thing I gotta undue.

And if the laws and codes say I cant build my own walk in then I am undone anyways since I could never afford to buy one

Also I need to point out I have been doing other "projects" as well, building a new kegerator for my own personal bar upstairs. I bought a used pellet stove that I am cleaning and tuning up to install upstairs to hopefully help with the heating costs this winter (installing it to be easily uninstalled come spring with no permanent modifications to the house) Plus my wood fired wooden hot tub has been an ongoing project all summer

 

[bobbafett]

I just read the whole thread and good luck. But I would have to agree with the "haters" that have replied, not to shoot you down, just to agree with them that it seems like there are a lot of issues with federal, state and local requirements you haven't researched yet. Not trying to be negative.
I think you should really get your all grain system perfected. If you did your first run on your setup with actual grain and not a test run with only water, makes me concerned- not for you but the grain..........

I've been in the restaurant business for over 20 years and brewing that long as well and If you make and sell food, and maybe beer, you might need a food safety certification. Even farmers need this certification just to sell eggs or an employee would need it working there. Not every one just one person in house when operational.
And everything in you brewery must meet with board of health and NSF codes. Lighting, walk-in, shelving and shelving height and distance from the wall have requirements, even the paddle you use for your mash must be NSF. The scale, all containers, everything! And those pickle buckets won't fly, they are use once then toss, you cannot reuse them, that is a federal code, and don't store anything in them, the vinegar is totally impregnated in the plastic. we just did a total renovation of the kitchen and walk-ins in my restaurant and the red tape between the fire code, board of health and zoning was ridiculous. Your 2 tub sink for example will not work, you need a three tub. One for scrubbing, rinse and for sanitizing. And all the testing equipment for it. Even a clock so you can time how long the item is in the sanitizer. Home brew stuff won't work by the way. Here in s.e. pa the board of health is tough but maybe in Maine it is easier?

I want to brew only for direct sale or distribution but it is too much b.s. with creating a legal business. I actually have on my property a slaughter house which i use for brewing with 2 walk- in coolers and one freezer. I have floor drains in every room, which makes this a great brewery! It has been re-zoned residential and the township will never allow it to be returned to commercial. Even if I produce for distribution only and have no customers driving to my door. And a employee at the lhbs near me started a nano brewery that distributes to 25 places and I asked what was involved and he shook his head and said don't bother, here in s.e. pa it took him 2 years with federal state and local to have everything in compliance.
Again, I'm really not trying to sound negative, or trying to imply you have no clue. I'm just throwing out some other points that others might oversee as well.
Good luck and I hope your zoning, codes and another red tape won't stop you from meeting your goal.

 

[akthor]

I do think laws are easier up here I've been to quite a few brew pubs in this state. I also planned and opened and ran a Cafe as a business manager for a non profit mental health company so I have been thru the hoops as far as state laws pertaining to food storage and food handling, permits, inspections etc.

Zoning as I have said all along is the easiest part of this. My neighbors have businesses on their properties and they will support me opening up mine. Due to having to get zoning approval for leasing the top of the land to a cell phone company for a cell phone tower we are familiar with the zoning board and several of the members including one who has said he would love for their to be a local brewpub to go to.

Not sure about laws pertaining to food safe plastic buckets, a lot of restaurant equipment uses food safe plastic don't see how they can say you can't use food safe buckets. All of mine are not pickle ones a lot of them held frosting from bakeries. Even pickle ones once they are cleaned there is no smell or taste of pickles.

As I have said I know there are hoops to jump through I am just choosing to jump thru a hoop at a time. Doing what I would do anyway. When comes time to do things that would only be done for the business I will fully research what I can and can't do before I do it.

In the end maybe I will just have a "brewing club" and charge a monthly fee to be in the club and the clubhouse is the bar and members drink free

 

[bobbafett]

About the bucket. You can't reuse them. They aren't designed for washing and reusing. Whatever comes in it, that's it. Like a soda bottle, you can't reuse them at coke and just wash and reuse. All the buckets are food safe, only one that are like the brand cambro are washable. http://www.google.com/search?q=camb...oAQ&biw=768&bih=928#biv=i|1;d|m_-jBqWuDNiQjM:

And a brewing club sounds perfect. Donation for membership for subsidizing electric. Not food or beer, and everything you make or brew is your personal stuff. sounds like something I'll think about too!

 

[barryfine]

I just read the whole thread and good luck. But I would have to agree with the "haters" that have replied, not to shoot you down, just to agree with them that it seems like there are a lot of issues with federal, state and local requirements you haven't researched yet. Not trying to be negative.
I think you should really get your all grain system perfected. If you did your first run on your setup with actual grain and not a test run with only water, makes me concerned- not for you but the grain..........

I've been in the restaurant business for over 20 years and brewing that long as well and If you make and sell food, and maybe beer, you might need a food safety certification. Even farmers need this certification just to sell eggs or an employee would need it working there. Not every one just one person in house when operational.
And everything in you brewery must meet with board of health and NSF codes. Lighting, walk-in, shelving and shelving height and distance from the wall have requirements, even the paddle you use for your mash must be NSF. The scale, all containers, everything! And those pickle buckets won't fly, they are use once then toss, you cannot reuse them, that is a federal code, and don't store anything in them, the vinegar is totally impregnated in the plastic. we just did a total renovation of the kitchen and walk-ins in my restaurant and the red tape between the fire code, board of health and zoning was ridiculous. Your 2 tub sink for example will not work, you need a three tub. One for scrubbing, rinse and for sanitizing. And all the testing equipment for it. Even a clock so you can time how long the item is in the sanitizer. Home brew stuff won't work by the way. Here in s.e. pa the board of health is tough but maybe in Maine it is easier?

I want to brew only for direct sale or distribution but it is too much b.s. with creating a legal business. I actually have on my property a slaughter house which i use for brewing with 2 walk- in coolers and one freezer. I have floor drains in every room, which makes this a great brewery! It has been re-zoned residential and the township will never allow it to be returned to commercial. Even if I produce for distribution only and have no customers driving to my door. And a employee at the lhbs near me started a nano brewery that distributes to 25 places and I asked what was involved and he shook his head and said don't bother, here in s.e. pa it took him 2 years with federal state and local to have everything in compliance.
Again, I'm really not trying to sound negative, or trying to imply you have no clue. I'm just throwing out some other points that others might oversee as well.
Good luck and I hope your zoning, codes and another red tape won't stop you from meeting your goal.

The thing that cracks me up about this post is that someone who is now currently commercially told you not to bother because it took him two years to get going. It may have been a long and hard road, but he succeeded. Others can as well. It's not easy, but it is possible with enough patience, time and effort. Good luck Akthor! I like your attitude that if you fail to start your business then you just have a cool brewery and chill place to hang out with your friends.

 

[bobbafett]

Yeah. And I did wish him luck too. I'm not telling him to not bother. I decided not to because I chose that. Dont go after me because I know of information that I'm trying to pass on to the author and others who re reading this post. There is nothing "funny". I was interested in doing this because my restaurant wanted to do a craft brew and it wasn't worth it from the business end for us, permits and regulation. I didnt give up, just asked some information. The guy at the home brew shop actually has the bad attitude if anything. I only wanted to case beer and sell it legally to friends and all the red tape and cost aren't worth it for what I'm interested in. I'll still make the beer and have payment for supplies, I just thought it would have been sweet if I actually had a license for it.

Iike I said in the beginning. Not trying to be negative. Just giving information that could be useful that maybe wasn't thought of.

 

[akthor]

Oh no I appreciated your advice, I didn't know that about the buckets so even if it's not all sunshine and roses I still learn something useful.

I understand that my idea and plan may not make sense to a lot of people but it makes sense to me.

Just remember I am not taking out loans, quitting my job, putting everything on the line hanging my ass out there do or die. I am doing it as I can with what I have. I have no plans to quit my job and gamble on making enough money to live. I just try to keep making progress. Less than a year ago I brewed extract recipes in a 5 gallon pot on a turkey frier outside. So i've come a long way. But I know I have a lonnnng way to go. Just baby stepping my way there.

I do believe even with all the laws and red tape I can make it work. I may have to make changes like move the brewing rig out into one of the outbuildings. But nothing is set in stone and I can adapt but I do think anything that might be a problem we can figure out a solution. Maine has special rules for small breweries which I think makes something like I plan on more feasible than if I was in a bigger state and city. And I can understand how people from larger metropolitan areas can think I'm stupid but I can stand on my porch and shoot guns, at night even if I want to. Hell I can go buy an assault rifle with a 100 round drum magazine and bring it home right after I pay for it I can buy handguns with 20rnd clips. Hell I can even buy fireworks now. Maine, especially anywhere not southern Maine is not like everywhere else. In bigger places it almost seems that they repress small businesses with all the codes and rules. Not so much so here.

Here's an example, I went to a bar in the old port in Portland, Maines largest city. Guess what they had for restrooms? Porta potties. Yup outside porta potties. I have no idea the how or the why but I was surprised such a thing would pass code or whatever.

So I appreciate all the advice and comments just don't call me stupid to my face cuz that hurts

 

[bobbafett]

Defiantly not calling you dumb. If regulations are different where you are, very cool and keep us posted. I'm sure PA it is way tougher with anything. People who come here have no idea that all liquor is sold in state stores-only. Cant get beer in supermarkets and other stores. I need to move to Maine.

 

[hopsalot]

In my experience, I found the TTB and ABC do take some time, but as someone who has really experienced red tape, (federal employee) it is a cake walk. The key is to schedule the waiting period into your plan, this will vary from state to state, 9 months to a year in Texas. Contact a brewpub or brewery in your state, brewers are very helpful as we all know. Also, considering the mark up on beer, we have already paid for our license fees this year and a $30,000 brewery in 7 months. It is a hell of a business, Hop to it

 

[zeekage]

Hop to it

I see what you did there. :cheers:

 

[akthor]

Hey fellas just a quick update not really much been going on besides brewing, drinking. Winter is just about upon us so have been busy with all the chores involved in getting the house and property ready for the cold weather.

This weekend the 20th we are tailgating the UMaine homecoming game, we will be across the street from the Alfond arena tailgating in the parking lot of Phi Theta Ki (spelling?) I am bringing a keg of Irish stout and a couple gallons of Apfelwein. Stop by for a pint just mention "Thor" or HBT so I know who you are.

After the game we will be heading to my place for my Bday party. Gun shooting, paintballing, beer drinking, music and Bon fire.

Give me a hollar if you want directions to join us.

 

[BeerguyNC61]

Hope you keep the paint balling and gun shooting sorted out after a few beer! That could get messy!

 

[akthor]

Yah we try to keep the serious drinking for after the gun shooting. Paintballing I think we are actually going to use sling shots so drinking will just add to the hilarity

 

[ScotBrew]

So what's the update on this?

 

[akthor]

Not too much besides brewing. Now that the holidays are over I will have some money to do more. Also with my rax return I will be doing a lot. So look for some big updates in the next couple months.

After breaking my 3rd drill (2nd 1/2" one) we did go buy a brand new 1/2 HP motor to power my grain mill with. Got the stuff to wire it up last nite I'll post pics when finished.

 

[totaldisaster]

A mile off rt1 in verona? Renavating a property you don't own? No permits, inspections, etc.? I lived in Searsport for 10 years and worked in Ellsworth and Rockland so I know the area. People get done driving for hours on the interstate and then get on rt1 for hours as they pass through Verona and are headed for their destination. To try to pull them off course a mile would be very difficult and there are not many people around Verona (especially in winter) to support a brewpub, especially one open 2-3 days a week. I knew people who ran succussful businesses in and around Verona and they had a tough go of it being open full time. Sounds like you should just enjoy a fun clubhouse and forget about the business side. Buzzkill I know, but I know the realities of businesses in that area of Maine.

 

[akthor]

Yah you are right I should just give up..... BAZINGA!

See I have lived in this area since 1985 so I think I know a little bit more about the area and the people in and around here than you. I have already had enough interest from residents to know you are dead wrong.

But really people don't lease then remodel for the needs of their business? Huh go figure. I can't work my regular job and have a drinking establishment open only on the weekends? When do people drink? Tuesdays???

On...and....on...and...on

I am not going to repeat everything I have already said. Haters are gonna hate. This has all already been beaten like a dead horse. I'm doing it end of story. If I fail at worst I end up with a cool beer club but at least I won't have borrowed all sorts of money and be up to my eyeballs in debt. If I make it happen a bunch of people eat crow which somehow makes it sweeter

 

[bottlebomber]

People will support good businesses. I would take out a second on my house to keep my favorite wood fired pizza tap house open. They are doing fine though, because they kick butt.

 

[Cider123]

Ok, so I haven't read every page in this thread but scanned a bunch. Have you said where you brewpub is located? I live near the Augusta area and always looking for a new place. Portland is fine, but its too far away. When we we get out, we usually head down to the Liberal Cup in Hallowell. Good beer and food at good prices.
Have you considered what some of your regular house beers will be?

 

[maddox1349]

Totally amazing!

 

[DanH]

I am not going to repeat everything I have already said. Haters are gonna hate. This has all already been beaten like a dead horse. I'm doing it end of story. If I fail at worst I end up with a cool beer club but at least I won't have borrowed all sorts of money and be up to my eyeballs in debt. If I make it happen a bunch of people eat crow which somehow makes it sweeter

Good for you, man; you just have to do it. I took a gamble on a business that my wife started. We could only afford what was in savings (we are anti-debt). It worked out well. Most of my successes have come after doing something that I felt I just needed to do, even though I didn't know if it would turn out well.

 

[vogtenstein222]

You're living the dream man. I commend you. My 3-5 year goal is to open a brewpub. I wish you only the best of luck.
Also, I have a friend in (either, but can't remember exactly which) Bangor or Portland. I've seen both names in here, so I'm assuming they're semi-close....he loves great beer, so when you are ready I may try to send him your way. Sub'd for updates!

 

[rexbanner]

I know all the things you talk about will be a huge undertaking. Not quite as bad as how you had it since I know my towns and probably state regs aren't as bad as MA.

Honestly I have chosen to address those things after I have built a majority of things I need done. Doing this basically alone with my own money as I go (trust me I don't make a whole lot of money either thats why this will take a while) its really the only way I can move forward and not feel overwhelmed. Trying to look up laws and codes is frustrating they don't make it easy for people that's for sure.

Dude...please listen to me because I am about to open my own nano.

You need to look up the codes first. It doesn't matter if it's "frustrating." First off, you need to talk to your local government people, either town or county. They will send you the codes. It's really not hard at all. You can talk to the inspectors and find what they want to look for first. Your local SBA is an invaluable resource. Use it.

Second, you need to find at least one other person who runs a nano in your state, and talk to them. Maybe you've done this already.

Putting off the hard or tedious stuff is just going to screw you. You need to buckle down and learn this stuff. In my state at least, none of the licensing stuff is really that hard when you break it down.

 

[freddyj]

subscribing. Wow! just read the entire thread. I wish you good luck!