It's Barleywine time again and I have some yeast questions

[imaguitargod]

So, I've been doing my research on this one (alot to do on the subject actually) and there's alot of different opinions on the subject so I thought I'd just go ahead and ask the questions I'm iffy on.

My plan is to do a big American Barleywine, around 13%. Do to yeast tolerances is it best to just use the California Ale yeast and take what I get? Or shall I do this. Pitch a California Yeast, wait until fermentation poops out, then pitch a nice starter of wine yeast to finish things off. That way it'll definitly carbninate in the bottle (which people seems to have a problem with on these big beers). If I go that route, what's a good wine yeast to use?

Or should I just perchase WLP099 Super High Gravity Yeast and go with that?

Also, half way through fermentation should I throw some yeast nutrients in there regardless of what yeast I use?

 

[kanzimonson]

You'll definitely want to start with a normal ale yeast. Apparently the 099 is for distillers who are only interested in alcohol content and not delicious beery esters, etc.

Apparently any yeast strain can ferment to about 15% if you make a proper starter, etc. So I think you'll be fine during fermentation. The problem comes with the bottle conditioning.

If it were me, I'd buy a pack of US 05 and rehydrate for bottling.

 

[flyangler18]

Be prepared with a massive starter and aerate the living snot out of the wort.

Have you given any thought to your intended OG?

 

[imaguitargod]

Be prepared with a massive starter and aerate the living snot out of the wort.

Have you given any thought to your intended OG?

I'm thinking around 1.120 and finish around 1.020. Still formulating the recipe and hops and such. Not even sure what yeast strain I want to go with yet.

 

[chemman14]

I plan on brewing the "old monster" barley wine recipie from brewing classic styles. It calls for 4 yeast packages of american ale or an appropriate starter. I plan on making a 2 liter starter pitching the packet to that. Then allowing it to ferment and then stepping it up with another 2 liters of wort

 

[NotALamer]

The American Barleywine recipe in BCS is OG 1.115, 12.5% ABV and it says to use WLP001, Wyeast 1056, or Safale US-05, no mention of needing to add more at bottling or anything like that. Ferments at 68 F and needs a stable temperature so the yeast doesn't drop out prematurely. Lemme know when you're brewing, I'd love to come hang out and eat peppers for everyone's amusement. I've been trying to make it to one of those Lakeside meetings but the BJCP study group is on Wednesday nights just about every week until February.

 

[flyweed]

I've never made a bareleywine, but do high O.G. meads...and we use what is called a yeast starter, and then also staggered nutrient additions. This helps feed the yeast, in an otherwise extremely sugary solution, so they don't become overwhelmed. you usually do additions at what are called sugar breaks, and these are usually done at 1/3, 1/2 and 3/4 sugar breaks. And contrary to a post further above, all yeasts do NOT take fermentation to about 15% abv.you will want an attentuative yeast (one that ferments wort thoroughly) with a high alcohol tolerance, such as Wyeast 1056 (American ale).

 

[chemman14]

btw, that recipe is for a 12.5% barley wine

 

[imaguitargod]

The American Barleywine recipe in BCS is OG 1.115, 12.5% ABV and it says to use WLP001, Wyeast 1056, or Safale US-05, no mention of needing to add more at bottling or anything like that. Ferments at 68 F and needs a stable temperature so the yeast doesn't drop out prematurely. Lemme know when you're brewing, I'd love to come hang out and eat peppers for everyone's amusement. I've been trying to make it to one of those Lakeside meetings but the BJCP study group is on Wednesday nights just about every week until February.

Hmmm....someone knows me and my pepper habits...I wonder who this could be...shoot me a pm dude. I think I know who this is...

 

[MacBruver]

If you want to be 100% sure you'll have enough yeast... just brew a simple extract pale ale a week before the barley wine, and pitch onto the cake for that. I did that for the 12% ABV 10-10-10 brew, and it took off like a rocket and attenuated really well.

 

[imaguitargod]

If you want to be 100% sure you'll have enough yeast... just brew a simple extract pale ale a week before the barley wine, and pitch onto the cake for that. I did that for the 12% ABV 10-10-10 brew, and it took off like a rocket and attenuated really well.

When you do that, you don't have to worry about resanatising the carboy do you?

 

[Pete08]

If you want to be 100% sure you'll have enough yeast... just brew a simple extract pale ale a week before the barley wine, and pitch onto the cake for that. I did that for the 12% ABV 10-10-10 brew, and it took off like a rocket and attenuated really well.

+1

I brewed an amber that clocked in at 6.5% with WLP 001, when it was done, I pitced my bw onto it. By itself, it would have bween 13.5% +/-, I fed it incrementally 4.5 lbs of sugars and dme. It came down to 1.022. I don't remember all the numbers now, but I do remember the abv being around 18%.

 

[MacBruver]

When you do that, you don't have to worry about resanatising the carboy do you?

Nope, just toss the fresh wort in there. That's what I did.

 

[imaguitargod]

Ya know, I've got a Double IPA in my main fermentor right now that should be ready for bottling right around when I'm going to brew the Barleywine. It's a massive beer so the yeasties should be decently aclimated to the high alcohol range already.

If I bottled it on Friday and brewed on Saturday is that too long of a strect to keep the yeast in the fermentor? Should I maybe rack it off the yeast cake and immedietly throw a starter's worth of DME in water onto the yeast cake so it doesn't dry out and then throw my ferm lock back on it?

 

[EricCSU]

Ya know, I've got a Double IPA in my main fermentor right now that should be ready for bottling right around when I'm going to brew the Barleywine. It's a massive beer so the yeasties should be decently aclimated to the high alcohol range already.

If I bottled it on Friday and brewed on Saturday is that too long of a strect to keep the yeast in the fermentor? Should I maybe rack it off the yeast cake and immedietly throw a starter's worth of DME in water onto the yeast cake so it doesn't dry out and then throw my ferm lock back on it?

How high was the OG of the IIPA?

If it was high, pitching onto the cake might not be a good idea. The IIPA yeast have been put through the ringer and may not be as healthy as you would like. This is why the previous poster mentioned making an APA for the cake.

If you decide to use this method however...

You should try to coordinate it so that they are happening at the same time.
Get all your bottling stuff together and stop just short of filling the bottles. Then brew the barleywing. While the wort is cooling, fill the bottles. The rack the wort onto the yeast cake.

Good luck.

Eric

 

[imaguitargod]

How high was the OG of the IIPA?

1.080

Thanks for the words of advice.



On a side note, I want to use liguid yeast. When people say use a big starter does that mean when I make my started to make it a "high gravity" starter, or just use a regular starter and pitch two yeast vials instead of one?

 

[chemman14]

I dont see the problem with making a stepped starter like I plan on doing. That way you dont have too much yeast.

 

[PseudoChef]

I would agree with making a 1.040-1.050 blonde/pale ale with 001/1056 and then using that cake. If it does not attenuate fully, then pitch an active starter of 099.

 

[MacBruver]

On a side note, I want to use liguid yeast. When people say use a big starter does that mean when I make my started to make it a "high gravity" starter, or just use a regular starter and pitch two yeast vials instead of one?

If you're gonna do a starter- there's no reason to spend the extra $7 on another vial of yeast. Just make a bigger starter. Personally I wouldn't even bother stepping it up. With good liquid yeast it's kind of a waste of time. Just do this:

1. make a gallon starter, pitch one vial of yeast
2. after a few days, transfer it to the fridge to get the yeast to drop out
3. siphon off the liquid, and let it come back up to room temperature
4. pitch the slurry into your barley wine

I've directly pitched vials of white labs yeast into 5 gallon batches without any issues... so making a gallon starter should be no problem at all for that amount of yeast.

 

[NotALamer]

For a beer this big a one gallon starter really won't give you as much yeast as you need. If you go to Jamil's pitching rate calculator, it will tell you you need 417 billion cells for a 1.12 ale. You can achieve this cell count with one vial of liquid yeast, and a 10.77 liter starter. This is a lot bigger than most people want to make for a starter, so you probably want to do multiple steps. How to Brew by John Palmer has a good chart for predicting cell counts based on starter sizes, but I don't have my copy with me. I would suspect that you want to do a one gallon starter, chill it, decant off the wort, and then add another gallon of wort, at the very least.

 

[chemman14]

For a beer this big a one gallon starter really won't give you as much yeast as you need. If you go to Jamil's pitching rate calculator, it will tell you you need 417 billion cells for a 1.12 ale. You can achieve this cell count with one vial of liquid yeast, and a 10.77 liter starter. This is a lot bigger than most people want to make for a starter, so you probably want to do multiple steps. How to Brew by John Palmer has a good chart for predicting cell counts based on starter sizes, but I don't have my copy with me. I would suspect that you want to do a one gallon starter, chill it, decant off the wort, and then add another gallon of wort, at the very least.

not true. According to the mr malty pitching calculator you will need a 3.75 liter stirred starter if you use 1 packet of yeast, 1.75 if you use 2 packets of yeast. So if you make a 2 liter starter, then step up another 2 liters you will have enough yeast

 

[NotALamer]

I don't think Passow has a stir plate, it makes a huge difference. Feel free to make some **** up and tell me I'm wrong though.

 

[chemman14]

I don't think Passow has a stir plate, it makes a huge difference. Feel free to make some **** up and tell me I'm wrong though.

I dont understand what you think I'm "making up?"

 

[NotALamer]

I don't know why you would assume he has a stir plate when it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the thread, and then tell me I'm wrong because a gallon would work with a stir plate.

 

[imaguitargod]

I don't think Passow has a stir plate, it makes a huge difference.

Nope, no stir plate just yet, going to make my own though sometime soon. I just manually swirl the liquid around a few times throughout the day.

Feel free to make some **** up

Unicorns are allergic to grapes.

 

[Saccharomyces]

1.120 is no problem for WLP001, 1.140 isn't out of the question. Incremental feeding will help, if you are going to use sugar add it to the fermenter a few days in. Oxygenate it with an O2 stone at pitching and 12 hours after pitching (I would not even attempt a 1.120 beer without an O2 stone, sorry). Keep fermentation temperature in check. That's about it....

 

[Teacher]

Unicorns are allergic to grapes.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[chemman14]

1.120 is no problem for WLP001, 1.140 isn't out of the question. Incremental feeding will help, if you are going to use sugar add it to the fermenter a few days in. Oxygenate it with an O2 stone at pitching and 12 hours after pitching (I would not even attempt a 1.120 beer without an O2 stone, sorry). Keep fermentation temperature in check. That's about it....

wait, your suggesting i oxygenate once fermentation has started? that seems like a bad idea

 

[MacBruver]

wait, your suggesting i oxygenate once fermentation has started? that seems like a bad idea

In this case it is not bad, because the yeast will gobble up the oxygen faster than it can oxidize the beer... and they need all the help they can get.

 

[chemman14]

In this case it is not bad, because the yeast will gobble up the oxygen faster than it can oxidize the beer... and they need all the help they can get.

hmm, OK. I was planning on asking for an o2 system for Christmas. Good thing I have this brew planned for after the new year