"It's a proprietary hop blend"

[m00ps]

I had a similar experience at a local brewery near me. Really put me off. Its weird how professional brewers that should know more about brewing than the run-of-the-mill homebrewer think that their recipe is like KFCs 7 secret spices. Its only a small portion of what makes the final beer. Also, pompous that they think everyone is out to steal their amazing recipes

 

[Murphys_Law]

I can't help but thinking that on some other forum for craft brewers that there's a post by a brewer who just opened a brew pub saying, "Man, some clown came into my place last night and was a jack off! He wanted my recipes and acted like he was entitled since he was a crappy home brewer!"

 

[pretzelb]

Aren't there real situations where you can't discuss the hop? Seems like I once asked about a hop and was told that they legally couldn't tell me because it was experimental and not out yet.

I'm not sure why we require our brewers to be salesmen. Sure it helps but maybe the guy isn't good with people and that shouldn't be a requirement. If he had 2 good beers he must have some talent as a brewer.

 

[Hello]

I don't get why homebrewers feel that whenever they go into a commercial operation, they feel butt hurt if the head Brewer doesn't want to talk shop with them, share recipes, taste their Homebrew or whatever.

Hobbies and business are e timely different things.

Not all of us do; however, our excitement over the process does tend to leak out even if we're trying to keep it contained. I know I try not to ask questions that would be only relevant to a home brewer. I do ask questions about hops or gain in beers not because I home brew, but because I am usually trying to nail down a taste I did or didn't like. I learned about not loving beers with black patent malt in them by doing just that. There are also hops I do not care for or favor and tasting a beer that had such presence, I would be inclined to ask. I am not asking anyone to talk shop with me. I'd do the same thing at a restaurant.

Aren't there real situations where you can't discuss the hop? Seems like I once asked about a hop and was told that they legally couldn't tell me because it was experimental and not out yet.

I'm not sure why we require our brewers to be salesmen. Sure it helps but maybe the guy isn't good with people and that shouldn't be a requirement. If he had 2 good beers he must have some talent as a brewer.

There may be a case where that is true; however, this guy said it was proprietary hop blend. Either way, if he doesn't want to tell anyone, that is his right. My guess though is that he may not have known or really didn't care to share it because he knew it wasn't awesome. I'd want to know because I would avoid mixing those hops.

I was at a brew-pub on Friday night and found out my brew-bro gave one of the servers/brewers there a couple of my beers for them to try - an RIS and an Irish Red - and I ended up talking to her about them, although she hadn't tried them yet.

Now I have to go back and try more of their beer, as well as talk about mine. I am really interested in what she has to say.

BTW - this place is pretty new, and only has three of their beers on tap (IPA, IIPA, and a stout) but I was being told about the black IPA/Cascadian dark ale that is currently in their fermentor. The rest of their taps were interesting things, like Saranac's bourbon-barrel-aged Scotch Ale, Founders Curmudgeon, Weyerbacher's Tart Nouveaus sour, and about a dozen others. Their IPA (Son Of WHYBO - "We'll Hop Your Brains Out") was really good, very juicy. The WHYBO IIPA actually just kicked before I got there.

This brew pub started off on the wrong foot. I paid $20 to go to their grand opening which was a parking lot fenced off with a band in the middle of June. There were about 7 people inside those gates. After spending $20 to listen to a band that I could have listened to from my truck in the shade, I also paid $15 for 3 tickets to buy beer. Turns out they had never even fired up their brewery. I was paying for crap I could get at the restaurant I went to eat at 30 minutes later. I went back with about 10 friends and drank there, got a tour because I was with another brewery, and learned that asking questions about their BCS brewery seemed to be more of an annoyance to the owner than anything. Still, I bought a cap because the hottie who got me into the brew house was well, hot. I am glad to see they're at least brewing something. I'd give them another shot but their grand opening was a bit of a flop in my eyes.

Point being, every new brewery deserves a second visit unless there was something so incredibly horrible about the first visit that I cannot stomach another visit.

 

[Falcon3]

I'll usually chock things like that up to a bad day- give it some time, maybe let them tweak the recipes and get some good feedback, then hit them up in 1-3 months. If you have a bad experience again, there's plenty of fish in the sea as it were. No sense spending money and hanging out somewhere you have a bad experience.

 

[slym2none]

Maybe the brewer did not want to talk about the beer because he had to go take a S#*T.......

Or possibly, the last homebrewer he talked to told him everything he was doing wrong!!!!!

Ugh... those uppity home-brewers...

 

[Rev2010]

I've gone to bars where the brewer's aren't present and the bartender's don't know any specific details about the beers on tap. But... the beers offered are good and the prices are good, and often the food offered is decent too. It's called a "bar" and just about every one of us has frequented them at some point. Why frequent them but abandon a craft brew pub because we couldn't get our beer chat on with the owner or head brewer?


Rev.

 

[doug293cz]

I've gone to bars where the brewer's aren't present and the bartender's don't know any specific details about the beers on tap. But... the beers offered are good and the prices are good, and often the food offered is decent too. It's called a "bar" and just about every one of us has frequented them at some point. Why frequent them but abandon a craft brew pub because we couldn't get our beer chat on with the owner or head brewer?


Rev.

Owners should be pleasant when they interact with customers. If they don't want to, or aren't capable of it, they should stay away from the customers. Part of any successful business is good PR (but not in the propaganda sense.)

Brew on

 

[krackin]

I dunno, maybe I'm getting my panties in a bunch for no good reason... What do you think?

That could explain a lot. Just is.

 

[paul32350]

Conyngham or Breaker? I have had a similar experience at a local brewpub.

 

[Cyclman]

My guess is that he is in this business for the cash, rather than passion for beer. I've seen lots of that the last few years.

There's a brewpub not too far from me, and the head brewer isn't the talkative type- a bit standoffish. But he has a manager who is super friendly to offset this, and I often have seen her "rescue" him from customers when they get too talkative for his comfort. But you know they all love beer, they make very good beer, and other than the head brewer / owner being shy, they're thrilled to share their product. He's just not a talker. But his staff balances that out.

I think going to a brewery / brewpub, it is reasonable to expect passion, and a certain openness to discussing their product. If they just want to retail, that's fine, but you pay a premium to be in a brewpub, and most brewpubs I have been in aren't palaces, so gaining knowledge is a reasonable expectation of such an establishment. I would not desire to go to such a place, but I am lucky, we have tons of great beer places in my area. I have been in brewpubs in scores of cities, and I must say, the vast majority love to share and talk about their passion / profession.

 

[MaxStout]

My guess is that he is in this business for the cash, rather than passion for beer. I've seen lots of that the last few years.

There's a brewpub not too far from me, and the head brewer isn't the talkative type- a bit standoffish. But he has a manager who is super friendly to offset this, and I often have seen her "rescue" him from customers when they get too talkative for his comfort. But you know they all love beer, they make very good beer, and other than the head brewer / owner being shy, they're thrilled to share their product. He's just not a talker. But his staff balances that out.

I think going to a brewery / brewpub, it is reasonable to expect passion, and a certain openness to discussing their product. If they just want to retail, that's fine, but you pay a premium to be in a brewpub, and most brewpubs I have been in aren't palaces, so gaining knowledge is a reasonable expectation of such an establishment. I would not desire to go to such a place, but I am lucky, we have tons of great beer places in my area. I have been in brewpubs in scores of cities, and I must say, the vast majority love to share and talk about their passion / profession.

I think that's a really good point. I can buy craft beer at any liquor store, take it home and drink it with family and friends. The brewery experience should offer some kind of added value, at least having someone who knows beer and is willing to engage in a little conversation. I don't expect them to give up the secret sauce, and I understand that the staff may be tied up on a busy night. But being approachable can encourage people to want to come back. Beer nerds are curious.

Breweries that offer tours often sate that curiosity, if they have the extra staff to do so. Sure, once you've seen a few conicals and bottling lines, you've seen them all. But it's the opportunity for visitors to ask questions about process, company history, etc. That's what makes tours interesting.

If you want to win over loyal customers you have to put a little effort into the social side. It's more than just the product.

 

[Homercidal]

It's a new brewpub. Do you know how much work goes into getting a brewpub going? I sudpect there may have been some problem that warranted his attention. He might have had some of them on his mind at the time. Who knows?

Cut him some slack and go back later and see if he is more talkative.

As far as his "proprietary blend" of hops, that just sounds douchy. He'll get farther along by being more open.

 

[BrewerE]

If I walked into a spanking new brewery and they had twelve beers on tap I'd already be concerned. That's a lot of beer to put out there if when you started your new brewery you wanted to present your customers with the very best you had to offer.

This x a million.

What ever happened to having 4 SOLID core beers that are the SAME
EVERY
SINGLE
TIME?

When you can do that, then it's time to add beers.

Now, every new brewery has 15 barrel-aged-sour-triple-dry-hopped-one-offs that are gross on a good day, and they haven't even figured out how to make a good 'normal' beer.


The day of reckoning is coming for all these wannabes and guys in it just for the money.
This pace just can't be sustained and places that suck are going to justifiably start going under.

 

[Rev2010]

Owners should be pleasant when they interact with customers. If they don't want to, or aren't capable of it, they should stay away from the customers. Part of any successful business is good PR (but not in the propaganda sense.)

Didn't sound like he was rude, re-read his post. The owner just wouldn't tell him the type of hops in the IPA and didn't appear to care much for discussing their beers and disappeared quickly. He says, "the refusal to tell a customer (and I told him I was a homebrewer) the hops used in an IPA is what bothers me the most." Doesn't sound like the owner was being rude or disrespectful. He is under no obligation to tell anyone any part of his recipes other than if someone is asking if it has something they could be allergic to.

But that's all past the point, and I wasn't even commenting on the OP's posts at all, just how some people say things akin to, "I'd never go back again, let them go out of business" and I'm saying "Over that!?? Geez what a sensitive bunch to give such advice".

You're obviously all entitled to feel how you feel, I just think in this instance there didn't appear any strong reason to ban the darn place.


Rev.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

As far as his "proprietary blend" of hops, that just sounds douchy. He'll get farther along by being more open.

I just don't get this mentality. Nothing against you specifically. For more than a decade I've heard and read about HB'ers whining that "Brewery X was too douchey to reveal what malts, hops, yeast, metrics, they use for Beer C."

Why are breweries expected to reveal this?

No one walks into KFC and expects them to reveal their recipe. Lots of folks have tried to emulate it tho'.

 

[hunter_le five]

I just don't get this mentality. Nothing against you specifically. For more than a decade I've heard and read about HB'ers whining that "Brewery X was too douchey to reveal what malts, hops, yeast, metrics, they use for Beer C."

Why are breweries expected to reveal this?

No one walks into KFC and expects them to reveal their recipe. Lots of folks have tried to emulate it tho'.

I wouldn't expect a brewery to give me the full recipe specs on any of their beers (though it is nice when they do), but it seems generally appropriate to include at least the kinds of hops, specialty grains, and yeast (if yeast character is part of the flavor profile) in the product description.

Much like wine, a huge part of the beer drinking experience for many people is picking out the different flavor characterisitics imparted by the different ingredients. It seems that most wineries will freely tell you what sort of grapes are in the wine, and most breweries will freely tell you what hop combination and specialty grains are in their beer. If it's not on the packaging, it's usually on their website.

I wouldn't classify refusing to reveal hops used in an IPA as "douchey" so much as highly unusual, and probably not a great business practice for this industry.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

It seems that most wineries will freely tell you what sort of grapes are in the wine, and most breweries will freely tell you what hop combination and specialty grains are in their beer.

But do you think, if they had it to do again, that the wine industry would reveal the grape if the style descriptors were something else?

Lets say wine took a different spin. And instead of being described by region and grape they used more abstract names like beer does (kinda hard to do since wine is more basic). I think lips would be tight regarding what grape/ grape blend is used. But there would be some who would discuss openly.

And yes, "most" breweries do discuss what goes into their product. And that is commendable. I just don't think they should feel obligated to disclose.

 

[hunter_le five]

I just don't think they should feel obligated to disclose.

I would agree with that. I just think it's poor business practice if you're a brewery producing anything but macrolager. Your hop-combination is a selling point, not a trade secret, generally.

Not worth getting bent out of shape over, though. The IPA tastes terrible, as the OP says. Just order something else.

 

[Clonefan94]

It is kind of funny the different ways people react. I have a local brewpub that really embraces the homebrew aspect of beer. Enough so, that the last 2 times they have brewed bigger beers, they've invited the homebrewers to bring in a bucket or keg and get 5 gallons of the last runnings to take home, brew something up, then bring it back and share with the group. The brewer there is always eager to discuss his beers, good or bad, ingredients, what made them good and even what made them bad.

I'm certainly not on the "Take your business elsewhere" wagon, but I do find it odd that the discussion went that abruptly. I mean being a brewpub, or any restaurant for that matter, wouldn't you want people to take an interest in what you are serving. Even if he was having a bad day, at least say, "I'm tied up right now, but hopefully we can talk next time."

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I would agree with that. I just think it's poor business practice if you're a brewery producing anything but macrolager. Your hop-combination is a selling point, not a trade secret, generally.

Not worth getting bent out of shape over, though. The IPA tastes terrible, as the OP says. Just order something else.

I just don't see why. The final product is the selling point, IMO, not just the hops. It's a culmination of how the ingredients are combined and prepared.

Just like the seasoning used on a cut of beef is not the only selling point for a steak. But no-one labels the chef at "Sutēki basho" douchey for saying the seasoning blend is a house secret.

 

[hunter_le five]

I just don't see why. The final product is the selling point, IMO, not just the hops. It's a culmination of how the ingredients are combined and prepared.

Just like the seasoning used on a cut of beef is not the only selling point for a steak. But no-one labels the chef at "Sutēki basho" douchey for saying the seasoning blend is a house secret.

Didn't say it was the only selling point; I said it was A selling point.
I'm much more likely to buy an IPA that is listed as having a combination of hops I know I enjoy than a bottle that just says "IPA" on it and nothing else.

Also said it wasn't douchey, just a questionable practice.

I don't think beer is comparable to KFC or steaks. People eat KFC and steaks because they taste good, but nobody is sitting there analyzing all of the flavor characteristics with the same scrutiny as beer snobs tasting beer.

I've never heard of people attending fried-chicken clubs and having a chicken-tasting party, in which people make detailed entries in log-books about the seasoning notes they picked up in different buckets of chicken.

In a steak, the steak is the star of the show, and the seasoning is meant to subtly enhance things. In beer, the hops are very frequently the star of the show. That's why there are so many dry IPAs where the malt profile is barely if even detectible.

Considering how much craft beer nerds obsess over hops (or at least the "Hop-Heads"), it seems like you're limiting youself by NOT advertising what hops are used.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I've never heard of people attending fried-chicken clubs and having a chicken-tasting party, in which people make detailed entries in log-books about the seasoning notes they picked up in different buckets of chicken.

http://thefriedchickenclub.webs.com/

 

[hunter_le five]

http://thefriedchickenclub.webs.com/

I recant everything I said. Gila is right and I am wrong. I'd go eat crow, but first I have to clean up all this egg on my face.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I recant everything I said. Gila is right and I am wrong. I'd go eat crow, but first I have to clean up all this egg on my face.

Not saying you are wrong. I just don't agree with the opinion, or mindset that a producer is obligated to disclose anything short of labeling requirements or health/safety concerns.

If the OP asked if the beer has Hopi hops, citing he's allergic to Hopi, and the brewer shrugged it off as a "proprietary blend" then I'd agree, he's a ******.

 

[hunter_le five]

Not saying you are wrong.

But you invalidated my point about fried chicken clubs not being a thing. If you invalidate even the smallest of my points, then you invalidate my entire argument. That's how internet arguing works.

I admit defeat.

 

[m00ps]

But you invalidated my point about fried chicken clubs not being a thing. If you invalidate even the smallest of my points, then you invalidate my entire argument. That's how internet arguing works.

I admit defeat.

Umm apparently you dont know how internet arguing works. Never admit defeat, even in the face of overwhelming evidence and reasonable arguments against your case! Being a mature, rational adult will get you nowhere

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Being a mature, rational adult ....

Hunter? Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[pretzelb]

This kind of reminds me of BBQ rub recipes. If someone says "secret ingredients" then people think they are being a jerk or rude.

 

[Clonefan94]

This kind of reminds me of BBQ rub recipes. If someone says "secret ingredients" then people think they are being a jerk or rude.

True, but it's easy to give a good version of it, without giving the real recipe. I do a BBQ rub that people have asked me about (which actually isn't measured by volume), I do it by sight and taste, but none the less, I always say, the base is half paprika and half brown sugar, depending on the container you are using. Then I list out the other ingredients. I even give out my "secret" which is a little cinnamon in the mix.

I guess in the end, I wouldn't think someone is a jerk for not telling me. I would think it's funny though because the main impact of an IPA is the hops. It's not really giving out a recipe to say, "I bitter with magnum then add Citra for late additions. Sounds like the guy just wasn't in the mood to talk. Seems today in the world of instant access social media, everyone gets pissed because you don't have time to sit and chat.

As I said above, the brewpub I go to, I'm actually a good acquaintance of the brewmaster there. Brewmaster is a busy job. There are times I've stopped in to say hi and he just doesn't have time. Don't forget, this is like them stopping in where you work and asking you to chat about what you are doing. Now multiply that by how many people come to the restaurant and want to chat with him about his beer. Is it a great way to be, no, but at the same time, it can be understandable if you think about it.