Issues with Midwest Supplies Extract kits?

[Shooter]

when you brew non-midwest kits do they turn out better?

This is a rather important question. Have you ever made a non-Midwest kit? If so, did it have the same off flavors?

I believe you mentioned a bitter taste in your first AG being addressed in another thread. I think I know the thread you're talking about, but I'm not a mind reader. If you're getting this problem with lots of different yeasts and having taste issues with both extract and all-grain, are you sure you don't have an issue with your water?

 

[StainlessBrewing]

Where do you get the water from? Could it possibly be the water you're using?

 

[Brad]

I have tried a few brewers best beer kits and they turned out the same. In my belgian wit I changed from my tap water to actual distilled water and I think it helped with the tart/bitter flavor a little but I don't know how to explain it maybe its the corriander in this kit? But like I said the beer taste almost the way that the fermentation smells through the airlock? it is just an odd taste. I checked my water and the ph was quite high to my supprise so I will no longer be using tap water. Just for my future process elimination.

 

[northman]

Maybe I should just come over to souptown and try out your beer.
Purely for scientific purposes.

 

[Brad]

Hey if you wanna drive down here be my guest I have two kegs one with my first AG Liberty Cream ale and my newest one with the belgian wit!

 

[ChillyP]

Have you tried replacing your fermentation bucket?

 

[Brad]

I have not tried that but do you really think that would be the issue when it has been this way since I got the bucket no more than six batches ago? And it was that way from the beginng?

 

[ChillyP]

I have not tried that but do you really think that would be the issue when it has been this way since I got the bucket no more than six batches ago? And it was that way from the beginng?

I'm just trying to help you turn over the stone. For all you know that bucket could have been used to carry pig Sh_t before it arrived at you. I normally throw away hoses and get new plastic after a year of service.

Did someone ask about sanitizer? and amounts?

 

[Brad]

Yeah and I apreciate any input I am trying to find as many things as could possiblly be. Forest asked me I use easyclean then I rinse then I use star san and I Know I probably use a little too much because I didn't measure for my spray bottle of easyclean I just poured a little into the bottle then filled with water and shook. I am going to be more anal about measuring when I use cleaner or sanitizer. The cleaner I do the same thing just pour some in the buckets/ carboy and then fill with some water and scrub with a brush.

 

[Shooter]

The cleaner I do the same thing just pour some in the buckets/ carboy and then fill with some water and scrub with a brush.

Just an aside, it's fine to scrub your carboys with a brush, but I wouldn't use one on a bucket. They scratch pretty easy. I use a soft cotton cloth on my buckets, if I use anything.

 

[northman]

I primary in a 6.5 gal. glass carboy and secondary in a 5 gal. that might be all the difference. I use a secondary to free up my primary, I have OCD when it comes to using my 6.5 gal carboy for the primary.

 

[Brad]

I use a carboy brush and I don't scrub hard I guess it could get scratched it is just a plastic bucket. I have been using a 6.5 gallon bucket for primary then better bottle for secondary. I just don't want the mess or pain of trying to throw around more weight with the glass carboy plus they can shatter from temp shocks and if dropped.

 

[Ti28]

The kit that I just put into the keg

Belgian Wit

Ingredients:
Belgian Wheat Wyeast #3944 (no starter)
6 lb. Wheat liquid malt extract
8 oz. Carapils specialty grains
2 oz. Hallertau pellet hops
1 Tbsp Coriander
1 Tbsp bitter orange

At boil I had six gallons I followed Midwest directions like I always do clean, Sanitize, Steep for 30min in 6.5 gallons at 155 Degrees, add malt extract while off burner, add 1 oz of hallertau hops for 60 min boil, add 1 Tbsp coriander and 1 Tbsp Orange peel for last ten min, add 1 oz of hallertau aroma hops for last 2 min. Boil till at five gallons

SG was 1.046

Then I used my new Counterflow chiller to cool down wort to 70 degrees close to my basement temp where it will ferment so I don't throw yeast into a fit. Then I let it ferment in the basement for a week and a half till I went to check the gravity. Where I took a sample and a taste. FG was not where it should be so I put lid back on and let it rest

FG was 1.010 after 3 weeks in primary
then I moved to secondary for a week and a half till it was pretty clear
then put it into my keg where it has been on gas for three days now

I don't need help with the calculations or anything like that I now have beersmith so I can figure those out on my own. Even if I am off in your opinions on anything like I said I followed midwests instructions not doing anything that was not on any of the recipe/process sheet. All of the numbers came out to where they should be so what would make my beer taste off/tart/bitter/the way yeast smell.

I think that could be an issue, I know Midwests kits are for 5 gallons, you're stretching it out.

 

[Brad]

Stretching it out? I start with 6.5 because of the boil and water loss in the grain at the end I end with 5 gallons.

 

[Frankfurtvr4]

I brew it at three then cut it down to five with bottled water at the end of the boil. That might not be the right thing to do but it has worked great on each kit I bought from them. It also helped cool my wort as I put the bottles in the fridge overnight the day before the brew.

I am still new so if this is a bad idea someone please let me know.

 

[jonbomb]

If you think it's midwest supplies kit's it's very simple. Take a recipe from this site make the recipe. Drink. Then enjoy.

You obviously don't like the kits they create. Then don't drink them and make your own beer recipe.

 

[tagz]

You mentioned that moving from tap water to distilled reduced the tart/bitter flavor. Your tap water could have a fair amount of chlorine in it, which would cause an astringent taste. I know some people say extract has enough minerals in it so warrant distilled, but you might want to try giving spring water a try.

By the way, I'm pretty impressed with everyone's patience. He's pretty short tempered for a guy who is looking for help.

 

[slothrop]

I'm a noob so I'm sorry for my ignorance but did you sanitize the counterflow chiller? They seem like they'd be tough to get clean.

 

[Goblet]

Are you doing your boil in a stainless steel pot? If it's enamel, it may be chipped, which would definitely produce some nasty flavors. Also, be sure to stir the bottom of the pot too, or anything with sugars in it will burn. Hopefully you have one of those long plastic paddles. Also, did you watch Midwest's free DVD?

I just made my eighth Midwest kit, and they've all turned out really well. Since I taste when I test, I know that even the ones that are aging haven't got any obvious off flavors. And the ones we've drunk were really good (I keg half the batch, and bottle the other half).

I steep with three gallons, so my boil is that much plus the LME. By the time I've added some sterile ice and my yeast starter, I don't have to add much sterilized water to get to 5 gallons.

If you got the same off tastes with kits from other companies, it seems likely that it's something about your equipment, your process or your water.

 

[Steiger66]

At boil I had six gallons I followed Midwest directions like I always do clean, Sanitize, Steep for 30min in 6.5 gallons at 155 Degrees, add malt extract while off burner, add 1 oz of hallertau hops for 60 min boil, add 1 Tbsp coriander and 1 Tbsp Orange peel for last ten min, add 1 oz of hallertau aroma hops for last 2 min. Boil till at five gallons

I've made the MW Bel Wit kit twice. My first ever batch I used the dry yeast because I didn't know any better, but I gotta say for my first batch I was quite impressed. Five batches later I tried that kit again and used the white Labs with a starter and I have to say what a difference. Smoother taste and a much cleaner finish. Loved it.
Can the problem be the amount of water boiled. It says he adds the aroma hops in the last 2 min of a 60 min boil. Then he says he boils until 5 gallons. Could this be the problem? I start my boils at 3 1/2 gallons and top off to 5 gallons just before pitching.

Not until my third batch did I start making starters. I've done about 10 kits in total (not all MW) and they've turned out good to great. All except one a MW Cali Common. That turned out to be over carbonated. Nothing to do with the kit. Any suggestions why? Still drinkable as long as I don't pour it.

 

[Steiger66]

I see this was addressed already. I should of read on.

 

[logan3825]

I would think boiling more than the 60 recommended minutes would change things. How much, I don't know. I don't have much experience with that. I would think boiling the hops longer would lead to more bitterness and less flavor. I read this before starting and only steep in about a gallon of water, although I think that is still more than recommended.

5. Got Grains?
In order to get the colors and flavors you want from your specialty grains, without extracting excess tannins, you need to do one of two things — either steep in a small amount of water or in weak wort. A small amount of water means 1–3 qts. of water per pound of grains (2.1–6.3 L/kg). If you steep in a larger volume than that, add malt extract until the specific gravity is over 1.010 before adding the grains. And finally, rinse with a very small amount of water — 0.5–1 qts. of water per pound of grain steeped (1–2 L/kg) works well (see “Steeping,” in the May–June 2005 issue of BYO for more on this topic).

To be honest, the only problem I would have with the Midwest kits is the instructions. They are pretty generic. They have the same basic instructions for every single beer no matter the gravity. Of course if you read anything at all about brewing you should have enough knowledge that it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[blitzgp]

Yeah and I apreciate any input I am trying to find as many things as could possiblly be. Forest asked me I use easyclean then I rinse then I use star san and I Know I probably use a little too much because I didn't measure for my spray bottle of easyclean I just poured a little into the bottle then filled with water and shook. I am going to be more anal about measuring when I use cleaner or sanitizer. The cleaner I do the same thing just pour some in the buckets/ carboy and then fill with some water and scrub with a brush.

It may be cleaning agent your tasting. Many cleaners and sanitizers use a tiny cap full for a 5 gallon batch of solution. If youve ever used Iodophor, that makes the water barely turn yellow. A brew site that did some tests with sanitizers were able to taste some off flavors at like 4x the recommended mix ratio.

 

[maxamuus]

Just curious did the OP ever figure out what was wrong?

 

[Brad]

Sorry my computer has been down for a while. My belgian wit actually turned out very well once it was chilled down in my portable cooler that is basically the first beer I have had that was cold to drink. My wort chiller I put in a seperate pot with water and bring up to a boil then boil for about ten to fifteen min. I use easy clean and star san that is all I use to clean and sanitize any of the brewing tools/buckets/fermenters ect. I use like the instructions say, easyclean 1 tablespoon for 1 gallon. Star san 1 ounce per 5 gallons. Im not saying it was midwests fault for the beer I was just asking to see if anyone has had or been having the problems I have. I know it is probably something I am doing and I am just trying to pinpoint. But when the beer was chilled it was like the strange flavor went away and the beer flavor actually came through?? Dont know if this means anything but. And I just started a Bourbon Barrel Old ale Kit from Midwest with a starter and the aroma hops I added in the last 5 min of my boil and let steep off the heat for 20 min as suggested by The Brewmasters Bible to try something new.